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Selective Genetics and Grow Room Designs [Front Row Ag Pt. 3]

Selective Genetics and Grow Room Designs [Front Row Ag Pt. 3]

The Real Dirt Podcast ft. Front Row Ag

Blue Dream, Green Crack, Gorilla Glue, Wedding Cake.

All of these strains had their time in the spotlight before fading away as more strains gained popularity. And the strains that are popular now will face a similar fate soon enough. Such is the process of cannabis breeding and selective genetics.

Dubbed “The Blue Dream Effect”, it is the process of a strain blowing up on the market to the point where everybody is growing it…until they aren’t. Maybe it is a new, better strain that uses the original as a parent, or an entirely different strain that doesn’t even compare. One way or another, a strain that sits at the top can’t sit there forever.

With demand for incredible, dank new cannabis strains constantly on the rise, it is on cannabis breeders to search for the best genetics to produce. This might be a small grower selecting from 6 seeds, or a large scale commercial operations sorting through thousands of plants just to find a handful of keepers. So how do they choose?

Some growers might just grow what they like and see success. They have an eye and nose for quality cannabis that people want, regardless of the strain. Other growers breed what the market trends indicate as the best to increase their chances of selling all their crop. Neither is the wrong approach.

However the equipment and design of your grow will always impact the quality of your cannabis.

In This Episode

In the final episode of The Real Dirt Podcast featuring Zach, Matt and Leland of Front Row Ag, the guys talk about selective genetics, The Blue Dream Effect and what profiles they all look for when they’re pheno hunting. They also talk about the importance of grow room design from HVAC to lighting, and the new trends that the guys at Front Row are starting to see take hold for the future.

Transcript

Chip:  And we’re back. I’m just rolling it up. What do we got here? Some Dosi, Dosidoe 22 from Jive. 

 

Leland: Got some Skittles over her.

 

Chip:  Got some Skittles over here from the Baker’s Ranch. What are you, what are you gonna puff on over there, Leland?

 

Leland:  I’ve got my Truth Serum.

 

Chip:  Truth Serum, Truth Serum. 

 

Leland:  It’s pretty good.

 

Chip:  Tell us about Truth Serum.

 

Leland:  So it’s a OG IBL and a Cookie backcross using Gorilla Glue. And it’s a strain that I started working on, working out over at a Dank by Pank in Colorado. Yeah, those guys grow some absolute fire. And this is just kind of a project that I’ve been watching grow for a long time and found this plant. And it’s just one of those ones that you know, really fall in love with pretty easy. And –

 

Chip:  Smells dank, man.

 

Leland:  Yeah, smokes good, smells good. You know, when, when we found it, we smoked through at least 20 different phenos and that one we smoked towards the end and I just remember it hitting harder than anything else. And that’s, that’s really the real way to –

 

Chip:  Laboratory tests only go so far. And we do love our laboratories, we love our purple scientific, we love our terpene results. We spend thousands of fucking dollars on this shit.

 

Leland:  Yeah. You got to look at what like, you can grow everything in the perfect condition and test it to absolutely like, you know, everything you possibly can.

 

Chip:  But if they don’t smoke good –

 

Leland:  Yeah, if it doesn’t don’t smoke good, and grows like shit, then you know. Yeah, like so testing. The ones that really impressed me are guys who haven’t updated their growth since 2008, who are growing, still growing the best weed and nothing has changed. And they just keep it as simple and consistent as they possibly can. And they’re not pursuing the you know, the top end like “Oh, like how hard can you push your plant? How much light can you give it? How much food can you give it? How much water can I give it?” And so we’re just, you know, learning a system and keeping up with it. And they don’t really need a whole lot to make it shine. And so when I see somebody who has everything fully dialed in, and his growing plants all look amazing, it’s definitely impressive. But I don’t think it speaks much to the genetic that it can perform in a perfect environment. I think it’s speaks much more to the genetic one, it smokes amazingly, even when it’s grown in a very like, you know, old way

 

Chip:  Yeah or with, you know, random care. Like, you know, the guy, the guy who grew this weed cares a lot about his weed. This is Freaux from Jive and have him on the podcast all the time, he’s great guy. But we were smoking weed recently, and he brought in like seven or eight flavors. And they were all grown the same because we both have this like, “Hey, I want to plant a bunch of seeds and pheno hunt,” attitude. And we’re literally looking for the best stuff, we’re not really breeding. And, you know, he brings over five or six different strains that were all grown the same. Different strains, flower the same amount of time, given the same fertilizers, and they all looked amazing. But when we went to smoke them, it was a different story, right? Oh man does this Chemdog cross was so much superior to everything else and the white ash that just like fell off of it. And he’s like, “Yeah, fed it the same thing I fed everything else,” right?  And it’s literally just like, how that plant digests the nutrients so much more efficiently. So you know, just and all, when we started talking about it, and they all had a unique characteristic that we saw through and contributed to either like, you know, a fertilizer application or environmental application that wasn’t unique to themselves. But man, that is difficult to do, is to grow large amounts of cannabis unique to each individual one.

 

Matt:  Now that’s very difficult, especially at scale. I think what Leland, Leland is saying too is really important and it’s finding a really good cultivar. I mean, when you’re pheno hunting, the only thing I ever wish is I had more seeds of the exact same thing I was looking for. And I was like,  wish I just had one more that had this slightly more unique characteristic or was easier to grow like, he mentions a lot of time, because some of the best stuff you find ends up being some of the most difficult stuff to grow as well.

 

Chip:  Yeah, absolutely. I take this approach to it, is as I make calls throughout the grow and as I’ve done this over the years, I’ve been doing this for years, like I’ll see plants that don’t grow the way I want them to, I just throw them away or give them away to other people. Now many people tell me this, “Oh man, that was the best plan I ever had. Oh, I love that genetic. I’ve been still growing it seven years, gave me a plant 10 years ago.” I hear this story all the time. But for me, I’m like, I’m really trying to get through it, and I can’t see it all. But what I want is, I want good growers, right? Specifically for me, I want like stretchers, I want ones that can take abuse and we try to abuse them specifically, right? Because if they can stand abuse, like we said and still grow great, awesome. I do tend towards a certain type of plant structure and nugget structure, but I can see the beauty of it all too. So I’m looking for like, plant growth first. So I’ll make these calls that are just like, and I try to plan it such a number that I can do it, right? And then after we grow the seed out, I don’t even usually take cuttings of first seeds. I just see if I want to. Right, it’s like, “Oh no, that turned out pretty good. Now let’s really plant it, right? And track it and see,” ’cause man, every strain doesn’t deserve it. Every pack of seeds are man, we try to pack by the 200, plant by the 200. So every 10 packs of seeds might not deserve like, a place in the clone room.

 

Leland:  Yeah, it just wasn’t right.

 

Chip:  Well, I didn’t like it, right?

 

Matt:  I’ve been doing a lot of breeding but I’ve done a lot of seed runs where we do like, you just said 200 or 500 at a time. And I don’t know the time over time over time, we don’t keep a single one out of 200.

 

Leland:  Yeah.

 

Matt:  It’s like you said, someone just did, as hard as it is after you spent the real estate. It’s just some of them don’t deserve it though. 

 

Chip:  Yeah, they don’t. We’ve lost a fair amount of genetics over well, man. I got these two friends who’ve kept everything. My buddy Collin and my buddy Fletch, like for 20 years they’ve kept every –

 

Matt:  I’ve got like, 5000 square foot grow with 93 varieties in it. 

 

Zach:  Well, well actually, like –

 

Leland:  Fletch is responsible, I’ve heard that name plenty of times.

 

Chip:  Yeah, yeah.

 

Leland:  He’s responsible for getting the OG out to everyone in Colorado.

 

Chip:  Oh dude. Fletch has made it happen for so many people. But you know, they’ve been able to retain it and I was talking to him the other day. And he says he has all the strains that we’ve been smoking and talking about for 20 years. And, but he just used this catalogued. It’s not something that they often flower or you know, they randomly do but point being is no, mostly I planted out thousands of seeds and there’s not terribly many I kept. Right now, actually we have a, we have a Trainwreck backcross from Trainwreck seeds we made 10 years ago that’s in the stable. We have a Cookies and Cream that we picked out of like, a 10 pack search. We have a Granddaddy Dawg that we picked out of the same way. Everything else came either we made, or came to us via like a clone or a cell culture, right? Plant, we planted out thousands and thousands of seeds. Yeah, right.

 

Leland:  A thousand is the magic number to find something really special. And I know that just from the experience of you know, having popped 1000 ones but just going through them you know, 100, 200 at a time like every –

 

Chip:  ‘Cause you can something happen like that, right? Like, hey, I plant a hundred, plant a hundred –

 

Leland:  You’ll find some decent stuff in the 10th pop. You’re gonna find one the 10th time you do that, you’re gonna find a plant that’s like, “Oh, Jesus.”

 

Matt:  That was the one.

 

Leland:  That was the one. I have a buddy like you know every now and then it’s like a lotto. Like, I gave a friend of mine five seeds that he popped and then we found like an all strain, and there was like took five seeds that time it’s –

 

Matt:  Tuesday out of our commercial varieties and this goes to what Leland is saying is, probably over half if not a super majority of them are still really high-end varieties we paid for from people that sprouted 1000, 2000, 3000 seeds to find one winner.

 

Chip:  Or got lucky, man. You know that Purple Trainwreck that’s throughout Colorado. We planted out hundreds and hundreds for years of that same genetic, and didn’t find a keeper. A friend of ours in San Francisco planted out 10 seeds and found the keeper, right? And then we stopped planting out seeds and then that’s the Purple Trainwreck this in Colorado. Because we liked the weed but like, we just didn’t find the keeper and he just lucked that y’all did. So it can happen. You can plant one seed and get above and lucky, right? And we see that with all the great, with lots of the great strains out there.

 

Leland:  We did a Pandora’s Box backcross. We just had some seeds and we had a whole room that was only Pandora. And then whether it’s a light leak are something happens you know, you have some hermies here and there .And then we kept the, I mean it’s probably out of a 2000 square foot room, 100 seats or so total. And found a really, really nice one out of just only sprouting about 20 of them.

 

Chip:  You know, we get, we got this great job. And I kind of touched on this earlier is we get to see these grows all over the country and world, even, right? People invite us from places all over to come to their grow, their product support or just to like, show off or you know, just to smoke us out. And man, what are some of the like, the strains or strain trends you guys are seeing out there?

 

Leland:  Probably the most common stuff that’s being grown are all of the you know, Cake and Pie and Dessert plants, which I personally like, I see the reasoning behind is because it looks beautiful.

 

Chip:  They’re good growers.

 

Leland:  Huge potency, great yields, easy to grow.

 

Chip:  It’s the Blue Dream effect.

 

Leland:  Yes the Blue Dream effect except like, at least Blue Dream like had like a nice creamy positive vibe. Like, I’ve just haven’t been able to enjoy a stone off of any of those plants.

 

Matt:  Well, hopefully for you it will be, it’ll be a phase just like you know, the Gorilla Glue days and the –

 

Leland:  It reminds me a lot of the Gorilla Glue days. 

 

Chip:  Lava cake’s pretty good. No I’m ,  love to see the Wedding Cake grow, right? We’ve got plenty of cake crosses.

 

Leland:  Blast to grow. And like I said, I see why everybody likes to do it.

 

Chip:  Yeah, it’s pretty good. 

 

Leland:  But uhm yeah, it’s I guess –

 

Chip:  The customers like it too. Pretty in the garden means pretty in the dispensary, and you know, ate the weed. Customers like it too.

 

Chip:  Hey, this Dosidoe 22 is a perfect example. Like it doesn’t quite have the same look as maybe, you know, what do we got over here? The Hot Rod or the Cookies and cCeam? You know, it’s thinner calyx, it’s white, almost.

 

Leland:  Yeah. And for me, like I guess my, I’m a more, I’m more of a, I like the smells. So for me, I’ll pass on the looks if it smells amazing. And I follow my nose. I mean, we’re –

 

Chip:  Yep.

 

Matt:  I mean, when I do shop at a dispensary. It’s, I walk in and they’re like, “Well, do you want the most potent thing? ” I’m like, “No, I want, I want what’s going to be the most flavorful and smells good.”

 

Chip:  What tastes the best?

 

Matt:  Emphasis on flavor.

 

Leland:  That is nice.

 

Chip:  Yeah, yeah, it is. But you know, it’s different, right? And we can appreciate it, you know. And many people buy it just because it’s Dosidoe 22 or whatnot, but it doesn’t quite look like what the, what the average Joe weed smoker considers good looking weed. It doesn’t look like that.

 

Leland:  No, that’s a, that’s fair. I mean, it’s like why do we say it’s a trend? I mean, people really like purple. They like frosty. So when you can get purple and frosty and hit over 25% THC, it’dbe like hitting the 30s mid-30s then yeah, people are gonna eat that up.

 

Chip:  So man, what do you think about like, what do you guys think about this like, this naming thing that’s happening right now with, with you know people just using like, candy bar names or, or, or, or candy names? And I mean the cakes and the pastry that type of thing comes in there too. But like, man something that I’ve always like, how does the, how does the rubber meet the road on it, right? Because like a great name doesn’t make a great strain, right? But man, call something Sugar Babies and it’s great. And you’re like, “Goddamn pass that Sugar Babies, you know?”

 

Matt:  I don’t know. Back in the day, all they do is add “diesel” to it and it would sell twice as much. 

 

Leland:  Yeah. 

 

Zach:  I don’t know. I don’t know. I missed that whole train. So I feel, I feel kind of like an old man looking at it confused. 

 

Chip:  What happened?

 

Zach:  Yeah, I know, like, you know, if people are doing that, they’re probably older than me. But it’s just like, it’s, it’s questionable for sure. I think it gives the industry a bad name overall, because like it gives the feds something to come after us over. It’s like, “Oh, well this is obviously marketed towards a child.” And it’s like, in a way it is, but uh you know.

 

Chip:  Weed definitely makes me feel childlike all the time. It’s something that I’m gonna constantly got to hold on to, but it’s not for children.

 

Leland:  Right yeah, it’s easy to take these contacts and distort them if you’re not stoned and having positive memories of going to the fridge at 2 AM to eat ice cream. And like yeah.

 

Matt:  Yeah but too, I mean, even if you’re breeding say poinsettias for instance, it’s up to the person that genuinely creates the that F1 to name it what they so choose. And whether it’s based on the genetic lineage or just some random, random thought or happening, that’s it is up to them. But much like Leland: said, I think too, there’s a, there should be some regard but out there for how you choose the name and respect and common sense maybe.

 

Chip:  Well, I’ve always preferred like, some type of genetic tree hint in the name. As opposed to calling something cornflakes or Sugar Babies or something like that, right? Like you know at least like, the cake stuff, you know, we’d be like, “Oh, it’s Dosi cake,” you know? Or you know, you hear like, you know what it is, you know? ut then I mean you got stuff like Race Fuel and Hot Rod and Rude Boy and All Gray OG crosses that have no like, name like, hint to their lineage but are great names.

 

Matt:  We have no idea what they are. Unless you, unless you really know you look into it. You remember, you know, you figure it out.

 

Chip:  Right? And you trust Leafly or whatever to tell you the correct information. ‘Cause often is, it’s not really correct. 

 

Leland:  Loogle.

 

Chip:  Yeah, yeah. Right, right.

 

Leland:  It’s like Wikipedia, you can kind of say whatever you want. 

 

Chip: Man, we go in these rooms all the time. What about growth trends, man? I mean, you know, a big trend that’s been trending hard for a number of years is LEDs. And now it’s like, double and triple stacked flower and veg of LEDS. And like, man, you know, let’s, let’s talk about that for a second. The rubber meets the road.

 

Chip:  We still help, we still help consulting on building quite a few grows out. And a lot of the time, I guess, the triple racking is extensive versus intensive, this conversation we have a lot of time. And then budget or and building too. So if you know, I guess where I would start, if I had a really small building, and my space was going to be limited, and I knew I could never expand, I might look at, you know, some multitier systems and you know, you know, like a pip racking system or something like that. But if you can build out a large amount of area and/or expand over time, the ergonomics in a single tier and a single plane, you’re going to grow better product at a cheaper price, because you can get to it, it’s more accessible. But I would say that those are definitely trends. And we still help people execute both of them. And there’s issues you have, you encounter with them both. I think LEDs for the first time in the last for the probably last two years, definitely, and maybe three years have been a suitable replacement for double ended lights. 

 

Leland:  If you, if you’re growing at a large enough scale, you can anticipate the ROI on them. Because it is still like, you know, three to five years of the firm pricing, but –

 

Chip:  You gotta want to do it.

 

Leland:  It’s worth it. Yeah, that’s your your, yeah, if you’re getting LEDs you’re planting like, you know, you’re gonna be running that spot for 15 years. It’s pretty much like, what like otherwise, if you, if you’re planning on popping it up and shutting it down, then maybe LEDs offer some versatility in terms of like, portability. Yeah, you’re better off throwing 1000 watts and getting that shelf life out on them, becaus an LED is built for 10 years, and they’ll hold that efficiency will hold up those standards aren’t going to change much past what we’ve already got. 

 

Leland:  No, yeah, you’re right. I mean, you know, we talked to this about people all the time is like, you know, periods of growroom construction. And you’ve got like the 90s, like pre-2009, the, you know, for, you know, 2014 we call it and then like, you know, modern stuff. Yeah. And the interesting thing is, if people do a couple of things right, then they’ve been able to like roll through all of this, right? And the one thing that people do if they do right is their environmental control, right? They do their environmental control, if they have a lighting plan that lights the room and associated with the lights they’re using and not just thoughts they have on how to put lights up, right? Then that’ll last a decade, right? There’s you know, and everything underneath those lights can change over that course a decade, because it will.

 

Matt:  The most important thing is mechanical system. Like you said, the HBSC, the heating, the cooling and dehumidification. One good point you brought up though generate, the the different generations or decades of growing. And I think it’s been lost over time. Because the people that originally built and designed the grows ran the grows And had to be responsible for the product produced on them.

 

Chip:  Yeah.

 

Matt:  And then today, you have tons of people that build and design facilities that have never operated them and never gonna show up after it’s done.

 

Chip:  And growers that have never built a system. And they’re like chefs, they’re like, “Give me the kitchen and I’ll cook in it. But I don’t know how to put in  a vent hood. ” Right? They’re not restaurateurs, who were like, “Oh, here, I’ll put that vent hood in myself, you know? After hours, so I wouldn’t have to deal with the permit, you know?

 

Matt:  Yeah, yeah. So I mean, the LED though, I think in multi-rack system is is a great choice. And then with some of your higher discharge LEDs, it’s a great choice for even your rolltop benches and your higher bay lighting situations. Where most people go wrong., and what we see still is just, they might install a really good control system, but they don’t quite understand the mechanical system or how to, you know, run the environment that they want to or need to.

 

Chip:  Man, contractors all over the world are putting their two cents in, which is great, that’s what’s getting Colorado where it’s at. But like a lot of them are kind of wrong. You know, they don’t have experience in it or they won’t call up the manufacturer and you know, it’s really –

 

Matt:  It’s weird dealing, having an argument with an engineer about why as logic his wrong, it’s very bizarre.

 

Chip:  Hey, guys, just quick break to tell you about Cultivate OKC, Cultivate Colorado. You know, I got into the hydroponic supply business 2009. I had wanted to open up a retail hydroponic store for years and I was already making potting soil at that point, maybe some fertilizers and some other stuff I was into. Yyou know, I hadn’t opened up a retail shop and I got this opportunity to open one up and California. Right as I was fixing open up down in Riverside, Colorado came along, ended up being better, bigger opportunity, opened up our Colorado stores. And you know, man, it’s just we’ve been off to the races ever since. Now we’re in Colorado and in Oklahoma. We ship all over the country and even the world, man. It’s amazing the people that call us contact us that needs, that need some equipment to grow their fine cannabis with. So if you need any help, any equipment, if you want to come to a great grow store where people don’t judge you, we’re not clique-oriented. We’re just there to help you grow. Man, come see us at cultivate. Cultivate Colorado. We’re on exit 206 i-25. We’re also on the Stapleton Monaco exit there on I-70. And down in Oklahoma City, our newest store and man probably like nicest showroom right now is we’re right on the corner of 10th in Meridian. So come check us out 1101 North Meridian. Yeah, man. Got any questions about growing no Matter if you’re big or small, just come on in. We’ll be glad to chat with you. Okay, okay. Well if you, if you’ve been listening to the podcast for a while then you know that I like potting soil, make potting soil coco potting soil, specifically. And you know, I just wanted to talk to you about how much I love coco fiber and why you should use it and why your plants should be in coco fiber and they’re gonna love it too. One man, my new product Coco’s Growers HP is just an incredibly clean product and made for indoor cultivation. I mean you can use it anywhere but man, it is clean as you can get it. We try extremely hard to avoid all cross contamination. All bugs, weeds in seeds, we keep it all inside his manufacturer, all inside. We treat it like a bakery, we start out clean, we end clean, we clean up while we’re going through the day. We really try to try to take a great effort to put this quality product together. So the number one reason you should use Growers HP is man is clean. Number two reason you should use Growers HP is man, this product we have developed it man, almost specifically because we want to see like, just incredible root development and root growth, and that’s what this product does. You know, I used to be a diehard coco only guy, compost coco and I just saw the benefits of peat and so we started putting small amounts of peat in it. Man, the roots take off. Coco and peat just blend together so well. So there’s, there’s the second reason that you should buy Growers HP is man, just to increase root development. Now, the third reason you should buy Coco HP is because man, it’s a really a light potting soil. And when I mean light, I mean that like, you can most people can pick up four bags at once kind of no problem. It’s light like this, because of the way we make it, the way we can control how much water we put in it, we make it a really dry elevation in a really dry high elevation area in Colorado, so it dries out really nicely. And when it gets in the bag, man it’s as light it’s lighter than any potting soil of two cubic foot that you can get. So there’s the third reason man, is it’s a really light product that the moisture is controlled in it specifically. Now, the fourth reason is man, it’s real easy one, man. It’s just because your friend Chip asked you to go support him, support The Real Dirt and buy some Growers HP. So there you have it, man. Top four reasons why you should use Growers HP in your garden.

 

Chip:  There’s an HVAC conversation we have all the time with people, and you know that’s why at you know Greener Consulting Group, we have our own HVAC engineer. You’ll get an HVAC guy who’s like, ” Oh okay, I can design this and put it in.” And he might be a really good person to install equipment, but maybe not the best person to design your room. And if you get that which is most, honestly is most of the craftsmen in the world, right? They know how to do this one thing or two things. They don’t know how to do both sides of it. They can build a house, they can’t design it, right? But man sometimes they do design the house, and there’s something that’s just not right with it. And the same thing with HVAC guys. And that’s why it’s really important on your HVAC to like get it like, designed by a professional, the equipment supplied by the professional and get somebody else to install it if you can. Or just tell the HVAC guy, “Hey, this is what I want, and I don’t want your math.”

 

Matt:  The wonderful part about you having a professional in-house is that and it’s crazy to me is from project to project to project and having built 60 or 70 of them, though, is almost every time, it’s a brand new engineer,. And like you just said, they’re starting for over, they’ve never designed one of these spaces, and they can absolutely get the words right. And maybe, but it’s not, it’s not going to be a product that someone’s learned from generation to generation of different growing styles and equipment.

 

Chip:  Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, we, we do all of our stuff in-house here and as much as we can. But you’re right. On every single job, there’s a different contractor and a different plumber, and a different electrician that you have to talk to. And, you know, many of these operations don’t have to have like blue, blueprint, you know, quality electrical background. They end up being as good as the electrician is. The HVAC is, right?

 

Matt:  The over regulation out there allows electricians and other contractors to really, you know, put full investment so to speak into the work, like – 

 

Chip:  Colorado, they have like a history of it now, right? So you can call somebody up, he’s like, “Oh, man, I’ve never done that before. But this guy has, or my buddy has,” and he’ll tell me how to program or how you know. And so you get like, Colorado’s a premium place for it to happen. That you can call up any random HVAC guy, and 50/50 it’ll work out pretty good for you. The rest of the country is not as easy.

 

Matt: Yeah, they have 10 years of experience now, though. And they’ve forced each other to be super competitive.

 

Chip:  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

 

Matt:  Which is a good thing.

 

Chip:  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, man.

 

Matt:  I mean, in Arizona, we’re where I live, it’s a huge struggle versus somewhere like Denver to find quality craftsmen. For specifically the cannabis industry. I mean, if you want to build a custom house, or you want to you like you said –

 

Leland:  There’s specific contractors out there definitely.

 

Chip:  Yeah. I mean, there that’s why I started the Greener Consulting Group is because I had contacts and all these, you know, different groups of people, right? This huge network of people that could do it right. So I can just call up the engineer who I know has done it before, electrical engineer for plumbing or whatever irrigation guy and like, get him on the job. It’s a better scenario for us. But I tell you man, if you’re out there thinking about building the operation, just call somebody like me. You don’t have to call me. But like, you know, greenerconsultinggroup.com is a great place to start but call somebody who really knows what they’re doing. And don’t ask your brother in law, who may be a really cool guy – and I got a great brother in law, Scott Outlaw, yeah. But you know what I’m saying, you know, get like someone who’s had a history in building like, many of these things. And there are many, many people out there that have seen dozens, built dozens built hundreds. I mean, Cultivate Colorado, I don’t know how many grow rooms we’re helping people build right now.

 

Leland:  Thousands and thousands and thousands. 

 

Chip:  Yeah, man, I mean, 100%. And I mean, you guys have seen the same thing too. And we’ve all seen people scale from small to like, large. And you know, it’s really important to call people that absolutely have your interest in heart and don’t just want to like, sell you some stuff. And that’s everybody in this room, you know?

 

Matt:  I think a couple of the trends I’ve seen too, while we’re on the topic, is you brought it up where control systems. People going from using almost you know, thermostats on the wall, to you know, some really really simplistic controllers to now, a lot of people are investing quite a bit money in control systems. And then also dosing systems whether it’s the ones that, pretty sophisticated ones in medium to large scale grows.

 

Chip:  Yeah, absolutely man. I’ve just, I’ve used dositrons for years. I bought my first one at a police auction, nobody knew what it was. I got it for like, 10 bucks. 

 

Matt:  That’s killer.

 

Chip:  And I had worked with one when I was a kid.

 

Matt:  That was my first experience was as a kid using the old,  the old D-12.

 

Chip:  Yeah, this was probably a D-12 even. I grew tons of weed with that thing, those things are bulletproof man. And I hadn’t, and I’d kind of gotten away from it for a long time. But now we’re here in Oklahoma such huge scale, you have to, right?

 

Matt:  Absolutely. I mean, it seems whether any of those types of systems, especially the like, Dositron type system, the labor savings on a daily basis from non mixing out and weighing it, looking at it, it’s you know, precision injection, and it’s gonna be pretty accurate every single time.

 

Chip:  Right yeah, absolutely., man. 

 

Matt:  Hours.

 

Chip:  Yeah, absolutely. And you know, there’s some limitations to the dosers. But like, there’s just tons of applications, people use them for years. I actually we started using again a couple years ago for our pest control methods, right? And we mixed up a stock solution, I’ve got like a portable cart with my doser on it, my sprayer on it. And you know, the whole unit just goes down to whatever section of the garden I got 100 foot hose, we spray everything down the way we want and then just move it to the next section. But we put quick connects on it all and so it just, you know, pops in and out of place and really easy to make. We strapped it all in on a dolly, you know?

 

Matt:  We started using them for even cleaning products.

 

Chip:  Oh, yeah, absolutely.

 

Matt:  Who knows how wasteful people are just even measuring out, you know, $3 gallon bleach. Or, you know, 30 to 50 dollar gallon of biosafe products, which are wonderful. But you start to see the mismeasurement of them. And the savings, and the return on that, it’s I mean, it’s quick.

 

Chip:  Yeah, absolutely. So we’re on, we’re on trends. Man out, you guys got outdoor indoor, like, mmm, it’s always a big conversation with this,. Like, you know, how big the outdoor market, you know? How bad is it?

 

Matt:  We’re having this cool fusion now, like, the coolest trend, I think I’ve seen has been the new greenhouses that are getting built, the high wall hardtop. They’re really making a good case for efficiency, in terms of just like, yield per square foot amount of turnover. And the amount of power it takes to run it and keep it stable through all four seasons. So you know, it’s a pretty high investment, when you’re looking at basically spending as much money building a greenhouse as you are building an indoor facility potentially more. Like in the upwards of like, 3 to 350 a square foot, but you’re building a building that’s going to grow weed anywhere in the world, or grow any crop anywhere in the world, and be able to create any environment that you want around, it’s pretty phenomenal. So yeah, I’ve seen these systems running in like, places where they’re dealing with a 20 degree winter, sometimes dipping into the negatives, and then having to combat 100 degrees summer. Everything stays stable, they don’t skip a beat on their production, it’s pretty incredible to see.

 

Chip:  Yeah, you know, the use of thermodynamics is, you know, as a, as a natural source that we all have is incredible. And these greenhouses really like, show it. And we use it in our business all the time for you know, just moving air around, right? And we see it in grows all the time. But um, you know, these high wall greenhouses, you’re able to really separate the heat from your greenhouse, you can, you know, there’s many ways people do it. But like, you know, passive roofs or roofs that are open or roofs that vent, or, you know, circulating air from the roof down into the inside of, you know, when it’s cold like, I mean, it’s, it’s really exciting on what’s going on in greenhouse efficiency develop. And, and man, like, all the types of like, natural heating and cooling technologies that are going on right now. Water glycol, like, you know, radiant floor, and geothermal, like, there’s just so many great options.

 

Matt:  Yeah, it’s, it’s pretty cool. It’s been wonderful. I mean, the one thing the cannabis space is afforded from a price per pound that we get is investing in some of the best technologies that are available. So it’s great, you get to see all that stuff.

 

Chip:  Yeah, they get to afford too and, you know, man, I take cannabis growers, man, you guys like, I just love how excited you get about the next thing, because I get excited. Right?

 

Matt:  One thing, I gotta say that I’m total nerd for, like, you know, waste potential. And just know the stuff we throw away that we view as trash. And like, the ways, the things that we’re going to figure out to, you know, incinerate and re-capture and concentrate that and turn it into something that’s usable. Whether it’s more plastic, whether it’s compost, you know, there’s, there’s a lot of potential on the horizon to clean up our mess and make an industry out of it. And those are the cool things that I see. So you know, I choose to have potential for the future and the outcomes, and the science that’s being applied to the situations that we’re in that we contribute to every single day, because in my opinion, like there’s never anything short of potential in every situation, so.

 

Chip:  Yeah, it’s important for us to be stewards of the land, of the world, of our community, of each other and that means you know, like really thinking about your impact and and you know, how you can benefit the most from it and eliminate, limit it the most, you know? It’s this constant, constant battle, but it’s something all business should think about. Blowing off, you know, environmental concerns, man, you might be able to save like, you know, 20 or 30% on your waste removal if you contact your you know, manufacturers or vendors alone, and say, “Hey, don’t send the plastic. Don’t send the cardboard. Don’t wrap it to me.” I mean, there’s all kinds of like conversations you can have with people and many vendors, they’ll still, “Oh, yeah, sure. You know, I won’t put a pallet topper on it for you, you know, I’ll only wrap it twice for you.” And that’s like better for you, because you’re putting 20% less into waste disposal. And, you know, that’s just one thing way to think about, you know, our environmentalism, and how there’s a return on investment and the smart business people, they try to hustle that all the time.

 

Matt:  And even, yeah. I mean, even at Front Row, I mean, using a dry soluble fertilizer, that you’re not buying excessive amounts of liquid bottles and putting that burden on the environment. I mean, people will look at it differently., but when you use something that goes the furthest and has the highest usage, you’re –

 

Chip:  Give me a stat on that. How many one bag of Front Row, which is uh, 25 pound bags?25pound bag, and it’s like, I don’t know, it’s 20 inches, 24 inches by like 16 inches, that’s how big the bag is, right?

 

Matt:  17 gallons, depending on the part.

 

Chip:  So that’s 12 to 17 gallons. So that would mean you know, you know, you would have 71 one gallon containers. Okay, your –

 

Matt:  Your 25 pound bag.

 

Chip:  Yeah, you know, 125 pound bag. Oh, use five gallon containers. Whoa, man, you’d still have four? You know, if you have 17 gallons, ’cause like your two and a half gallons gotta come from somewhere.

 

Matt:  And the density of those materials from injection molded bottles, whatever it is. That’s what’s crazy.

 

Chip:  Yeah, exactly. So you know, that we should all think about it, man, that’s for sure. No Matter what it is in our business, right? Hey, man, we’re already kind of into the future, dude. Let’s, let me, let me hear some predictions. What’s, what’s going on next? What’s happening next in cannabis?

 

Leland:  Oh, boy. That’s a lot.

 

Matt:  Yeah, that’s a lot. 

 

Chip:  Just pick, just pick one.

 

Leland:  Um, I would I would like to think, you know, we’re talking about the greenhouses. There would be some more efficiency from that standpoint. Hopefully some more investment into stewardship. You know, as we run into problems, we’ve always been problem solvers. We like to throw ourselves at problems and make things better. And I think that’s one of the coolest things like, going back to one of our first conversations we had about the liquid nutrients and like making it fun. Like, how else do we keep making this fun? And so I think being able to, like, you know, think beyond just the grow and like how we’re taking care of ourselves in the backend, I think that’s a trend that’s developing. And as a community forms and network forms, and we get consumers and we get direct consumer feedback. And now we hear from people and dollars are speaking on a legal,  on a legal basis every day. So I think that’s one trend that’s developed pretty quickly. And then, yeah, another one would probably just be the weeds getting danker. 

 

Matt:  Weed’s getting danker. [inaudible 37: 59] watch out , yep.

 

Chip:  [inaudible 38:05]. 50 percenters. You guys remember Cheech and Chong? One of the things that they made this joke is like it was a grow joke. It was like , ” I want the Afghan that don’t stink,” rtight? You know, the joke there is you don’t want anybody to smell it , ecause you’re growing it or you’re like, transporting across the country or in the airport. You don’t want to get caught. But like now, it’s a different story, right? Yo, Afghan gotta stank.

 

Matt:  It’s got a stank, yeah. I think on the flipside, from, you know, the future and what I’ve been seeing it definitely from a trend is especially, in limited license states where you’re say, you’re like in Maryland, or Arizona or states that don’t just have you know, like, 900 growers like Colorado, for instance. The most successful operators in those states have started consolidating some of the businesses in those states and then also going out and becoming more and more often, what we refer to as multi-state operators as well. So just from a general trend, and what’s you know, continues to happen in the future. I found that interesting as well.

 

Chip:  Yeah, no you right MSOs are that’s a new buzzword 2021, right? That’s for sure is gonna continue, man. We got some new markets coming too. I’m excited about that. And, you know, we’ve, we have, we’ve been a part of the green rush, you know for my whole life really. And, you know, late 90s, we ran to California when they legalized it over there and it’s like popped all around California, and Colorado, and now Oklahoma. And been into so many different states and like –

 

Matt:  The southern states coming up too.

 

Chip:  Hey, that’s the interesting thing to see is now it’s going to all you know, like different climates, different people, different applications. A lot of the southern states is just like, “Oh, it’s gonna be 5% THC.” So that’s gonna be different, like, you know, requirements of like cultivation, different requirements of extraction, different products. Then like what’s happening in Colorado, you know, which is like this awesome high quality, you know, product coming to the marketplace, cream rising to the top. And that excites me to see ’cause that’s really of the market developing, because it’s not just one way. There’s so many different ways to like, work with this plant.

 

Leland:  Yeah, definitely. That’s a big part of the potential in it that’s untapped is the, our markets are still developing on the smokeable flower side, but we haven’t even like, we’re still ground floor. It’s doubling in size the market once all the states are legal. So it’s, there’s that extend for as well as the industrial applications. You know, the potential for this crop to really change the way that we farm is pretty incredible. It’s it’s awesome. 

 

Leland:  And I think one thing for the future that we didn’t, we don’t really touch on as well. And I found important and maybe in the stewardship, stewardship side of it is the footprint of the industry, the focus on greenhouse and outdoor and states that are really well equipped for that. And being able to grow at a more expensive level. And those I think that’s going to be good for the future. You know, some of the southwestern states where it’s dry and temporary, during certain parts of the year are going to be great for growing outdoor and in greenhouse climates.

 

Chip:  Yeah, absolutely, man.

 

Leland:  And then you won’t have to have these mega facilities that have you know, powered and man’s multiple times more than data centers, and then hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them.

 

Chip:  Yeah, absolutely, man. It’s, you know, weed has grown all over the planet in so many different ways. But the commercial aspect of smokable flower has been concentrated in kind of the northern latitudes in northern Western latitudes, specifically in the US. But like Canada, Washington, Oregon, California, you know, those have been major, major major producers for years and years and years. And now like, there’s all these local regional producers, they all are following trends and making their own all at the same time, man, right?  Damn, guys, man, this has been such an awesome Real Dirt episode. We’ve been trying me and Leland: have been trying to put this together for two years. I haven’t made enough time for it. And then there was this weird international like, thing happened. Right, you know, I wish we could have just like, you know, just, you know, you know, it’s almost like getting held back a year, right?

 

Zach:  Well, [inaudible 42:37]. No way.

 

Chip:  Yeah. Well, you know what happens when you get held back a year? Then you’re bigger than everybody else in your class. No, it is positivity. It’s been in the cannabis industry, like it’s proven great in so many different ways. You know, but unemployed people smoke more weed. Hmm, stressed out people like to smoke more weed. There’s more legal weed, more different environments. It’s given people a chance to prove it and use it. There’s like, drug testing that hasn’t gone on and you know, as we were like, “Oh, man, well, I’m not going back to work for six months.” I might as well puffy puff puff. 

 

Zach:  I’m working from home, yup.

 

Chip:  And you know, in Colorado like, consumption didn’t drop at all but tourism almost stopped. All the locals are like puff, puff, puff. 50% of the business came from tourism. 

 

Zach:  Crazy. 

 

Chip:  Right? And so everybody just [inaudible 43:39].

 

Leland:  Yeah, I remember that. Every state were involved in cultivating. We’ve seen usage during during COVID go up?

 

Chip:  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, and our industry is going to continue to grow and rise and hey, man, if you guys got any questions, I want you to reach out to Front Row on their Instagram site, on their website, their phone number, which is what’s the phone number?  

 

Matt:  Put me on the spot again.

 

Chip:  I know right? Yeah, let’s call Leland: –

 

Matt:  You can get us on, uh, on the website, under the customer service section is just a form to fill out. Fill out that form real quick. And, you know, either me or one of the other guys on the team will get with you ASAP. We’re really, really good about responding that way. That goes straight to our emails we get notifications and, you know, everybody’s everybody loves doing it through email. That way, we can just keep the conversation kind of recorded and go back, because it gets overwhelming if you’re going to call us. And just keep calling then especially through the 1-800 number then we really have no recollection or record of the conversation. 

 

Zach:  Go to www.frontrowag.com. and fill out the form. That’s the way.

 

Chip:  Right.

 

Zach:  And so I’ll tell him tell him that you are listening to podcasts and I will hook you up for sure.

 

Chip:  Yeah, tell him Chip sent you .So, “Hey man. I listen to Chip’s podcasts all the time.”

 

Chip:  I can hear his voice in the back [inaudible 45:17]. No people say that to me all the time, man. And that’s really what the purpose of this is, is I want people to have better experience, to do better. I’m interested in what people like you guys are doing in the industry. And I truly want to like, convey actual knowledge to the people that want to get into the cannabis industry  or are already here. Right? Because you guys are the future growers, the future business people, the current business people. And man like we’re all together here. So we’re here for support. Call Cultivate Colorado, Cultivate OKC. Cultivateokc.com, you can order almost anything you want there. You can sign up for a commercial account. You got any questions, just stop in any one of the stores or give us a call and we’d be glad to help you out. If you loved this episode, please go to iTunes and Spotify and subscribe to The Real Dirt podcast. The more of you that subscribe the better off we are. Man, if you want to just download the episode off our website man that’s awesome too. Go to therealdirt.com. Man and always enjoy that next joint and yeah, man, think about think about better things. Real Dirt.

Breaking Down Salt Nutrients with Front Row Ag (Pt. 2)

Breaking Down Salt Nutrients with Front Row Ag (Pt. 2)

Front Row Ag nutrients review and interview

When someone first sees a bag of Front Row Ag nutrients, the first question they might have is “what is it?”

Front Row starts with a simple Part A that is packed with nitrogen, calcium and chelated micronutrients, followed by Part B, full of magnesium, potassium, phosphorus and nitrogen. The Part B also has surfactin, which is a natural antibiotic produced by Bacillus subtilis to help strengthen plant immunity against disease. And that’s the base.

No Grow A&B followed by Bloom A&B. Just Part A and B for growth, and Bloom for flower. Three bags total. The flower nutrient from Front Row is more than just a PK booster too. The biggest benefit to Front Row Bloom is the inclusion of sulfur and magnesium included in the bag. This helps make significant changes to calcium and magnesium ratios throughout the flower process, which is extremely useful in greenhouse and outdoor applications.

Ease of use and affordability

Silicic acid has become a hot commodity for growers, but the price point has been too high for many to commit. Front Row decided to create a mono-silicic acid that is just as effective and more affordable. While some silicic acid products may be designed with propylene glycol as the carrying agent, Front Row uses an alcohol-based sugar carrying agent that the plant can metabolize and use for more energy.

And the affordability carries on throughout the full Front Row Ag line up. Additionally the application rates are simplified to avoid over measuring or over feeding. The entire growth cycle can be completed with the base line; A, B and Bloom. However growers looking to increase their rhizosphere and take a more biosynthetic approach have more options that Front Row offers.

This Week’s Episode

In Part 2 of the Front Row Ag interview, Chip, Matt, Zach and Leland dive into what makes up their products, how they differ from the competition in their composition, application and effectiveness. They also talk about the debate over fertilizer injectors, stock solutions and more as the gang dives into the rabbit hole of irrigation and cultivation.

If you missed Part 1 of this interview, you can catch up right here. To hear more Real Dirt Podcast episodes, subscribe and follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts to get over 100 episodes instantly!

Transcript

Chip:  And we’re back. Oh man, you know we always have people do like, you know, feats of strength so to speak while we’re, while we’re on break. And I was just amazed. That was like, the largest dab I’ve ever seen anybody do, Leland:. That must have been like, a three and a half gram chunk, and you didn’t cough once, and you don’t even seem like you’re high, man.

 

Leland:  You know that they say I have callous lungs.

 

Chip:  Callous lungs, that that that’s it. 

 

Leland:  Part of the [inaudible 00:45].

 

Chip:  Yeah, you know, some people can handle that stuff. I can’t. I really love extract, we were just talking about extract. And I love what it’s done to the cannabis industry.

 

Leland:  Yeah, absolutely. Not, it’s, it’s changed the game.

 

Chip:  So yeah, here we are, it’s The Real Dirt. I’m talking to Matt, Zach and Leland, also known as Zeeland. And this is Front Row Ag we’re fixing to get into the nitty gritty. All the questions that my guys out there at Tribe Collective have been asking, and want to know about, we’re fixing to talk about all of the products. We’re going to talk about the technical details on how to use it, indoor, outdoor, greenhouse, in the ground, in pots. We’re going to talk about how to put it in a mixing tank, how to put it in a stock solution. Oh man, get your, put your joints down, pick your pens up, get your notepads ready, and, and, and here we go. So, let’s start from the beginning. What are, what are these products?

 

Matt:  Yeah, so we have the Front Row offering starts with Part F. It’s basically all of our nitrogen, all of our calcium and a really, really healthy micro package. So you have all the essential micronutrients in there chelated. We typically use two different chelates, EDTA, and EDDHA. And it just helps with really high availability in a wide, wide pH range, then our part B, the bulk of our magnesium, a lot, a good amount of potassium, phosphorus and nitrogen in there as well. And then, the cool part about our part B is that there’s a surfactant in there. And then there’s also a small amount of inclusion rate of citric acid. It acts, once the fertilizer goes into the solution, whether you’re injecting on the fly or putting it in a reservoir, however you want to feed, it just, it helps the chelates to be more active. And in the fertilizer world, we call kind of a preservative, it helps keeps things in solution as well. But a little bit of added value there.

 

Chip:  So that’s an A, and a B, and that’s your major MPK. That’s where it all comes from.

 

Matt:  That’s the, that’s probably the, if you’re going to refer to a base for like, the base of any other nutrient, whether you’re looking like cannis A, B from back in the day, the GH or even any of our competitors on the dry side, the A and the B is what you’re going to use start to finish, whether it’s veg or in flower And then in flower, we have our third product, which is Bloom. Traditionally, the bloom when you look at the the guaranteed analysis, it looks like it’s a PK booster, which it absolutely is and it serves as that. But one of the biggest benefits of it is the sulfur and the magnesium that we include in our bloom. So it allows us to make really significant and meaningful changes to the calcium, the magnesium ratio throughout flower, which is tremendously needed for greenhouses and outdoor. And we’ll talk about is a good amount of sulfur at the beginning of the flowering process as well. So more so than just being a PK booster, I’d say its contributions to sulfur and magnesium are, can’t be understated. In the fertilizer world, there’s a lot of other value added products that do offer great benefits depending on the situation. And that’s, that’s something we’re always wanting to talk about. But another product that Front Row really stands behind and created to help growers out there from a value standpoint is our silicic acid, so we offer a 10% monosilicic acid as well.

 

Chip:  That’s the SI, right?

 

Matt:  Yep, the Front Row SI, yep. And so the reason –

 

Chip:  Huge value in that project- product, man. I mean you know, other SI products or the other silica based type products we sell in liquid form are just so expensive, like, like –

 

Matt:  Oh, yeah. And that’s you really, when when we were, when we were looking at the opportunity repetitively, we were just told that. We were, so we were told that a lot of these other specifically mono and disilicic acid products, they’re great. They work awesome, they do exactly what the people say they do, but we can’t afford to use them, was the the recurring feedback we would get. And we said, “Okay, well, we know that’s a benefit from strengthening the cell wall, adding some weight, helping with the resistance of different bugs and diseases and things like that. But we need to make it affordable.” And something that’s a no brainer for the cultivator and a commercial grower, and that was really our aim there was just help them out. But with that though I mean, it’s a tremendously high quality monosilicic acid. And then a big difference too is a lot of the products you’ll buy if they are monosilicic acid will use a propylene glycol , a arrying agent to help keep the solulized. We actually use an alcohol based sugar that the plant metabolizes and uses. But then yeah, and then Leland:’s gonna talk about two of our other products as well.

 

Chip:  I’m gonna, I’m gonna pause you here. So it’s, it’s, core of this is this a B product that you guys use as the base product from start to finish. And then they’re just used at different ratios for the week or the phase of growth. And then there’s a bloom enhancer, that’s a separate product from the A and B, right – and that’s bloom, right?

 

Matt:  Yeah. And that’s important actually, um, ease of use we talked about earlier. When we designed this product, the A and the B, you talked about how they get used. When you make them into a liquid concentrate, which is kind of where we saw the industry going, people buying dosers, injection skids, things of that nature, even making concentrates at their house. The product is used at AMB or always used at equal dilution rates. And so at milliliter per gallon, the you know, if you use one at 14 mLs, the other one gets used to 14 mLs, and that’s veg through flower.

 

Chip:  Traditionally speaking in liquid products, right?

 

Matt:  Whenever you use an injection equipment or make our product into a liquid, and then from a dry, yeah, they’re used at different gram rates per gallon. Because from a design of a fertilizer, you have to choose whether when it’s made into a concentrate or stays dry, if it’s going to be even mapped on, on which side of that.

 

Chip:  So the core products is A and B, the Bloom and the SI. That’s ,that’s the base product line, right? That’s what most commercial people are buying. But there’s these other two products, you got the Bioflow and the Unleash.

 

Leland:  Yep. And so that’s for people who are taking, you know, a biosynthetic approach where they’re wanting to encourage that rhizosphere development, and have more health to the root zone, and like, avoiding more pathogens. So when people are looking for that solution, we have the Unleash. It’s NPK mobilizing microbe, and it’s designed mainly to supply nitrogen to the plant, mobilize any nitrogen that may be fixed and locked out in the medium, as well as doing the same thing with phosphates. And converting those phosphates into plant uptake will forms as well. There’s also some other microbes in there that are helping with general disease resistance, as well as making sugars and different enzymes that the plant can use, facilitating more of an organic process on top of just the traditional synthetic ion exchange. The other product that we’re offering is the Bioflow. So that one’s actually really, really cool. And we’ve seen a lot of killer results with that across the board. It’s made to, or it’s designed as a irrigation mine soap. So as part of a treatment that you’re using in your, your irrigation system. It’s all microbial, so it’s plant-friendly. So what we’re recommending is that people are using it overnight or for like, a minimum of four hours in the lines. That way, it’s breaking down any biofilm that’s building up, any kind of nutrient scale, and making it into a flowable form that in most situations isn’t going to affect the plant in a negative way. The worst thing you might see from it, if you got really nasty lines, there might be some chunky stuff that’s coming out the first time you use it.

 

Matt:  That’s what you want.

 

Leland:  And that’s what you want, or it’s gonna have a really low pH, which is also you know, a sign that it’s working. But I’ve seen, I’ve seen that take care of some of the gnarliest irrigation line problems where people wanted to throw, throw their whole system away.

 

Chip:  Right. Wow, that’s great. I can’t wait to get into that a little bit more. So these are the core products and, and people use these type of products in all different ways. But the man, that the most exciting way or the, I should say the most conversation we have is with fertilizer injectors. And I kind of like to go right into that on how to learn stock solutions, fertilizer injections, and, and let’s, let’s hop down that rabbit hole as they like to say.

 

Leland:  Absolutely.

 

Matt:  Definitely. Yeah, and they’re, I would say that’s what our product is designed for specifically. It’s great for going direct in the res, it works awesome for that. But from original intent, the math behind it, we really saw it being a you know, great for injection systems. And so the products themselves are pretty easy. We have some videos now that you can look up whether it’s on Instagram, [inaudible 9:30] as well. And some other resources in terms of just watching it happen. But there’s a pound or gram per gallon that you use to make the stock concentrate. You mix it up and and then you start injecting at a really, really high level. And we, our instructions are so simple, where if you’re saying you’re making 55 gallon drums, we tell you to put X amount of 25 pound bags into the 55 gallon drum while you’re filling it up, top it off and then give you instructions to test it to make sure it’s accurate and correct. And then you’re off to the races from there.

 

Chip:  So when you have these stock solutions, you have to constantly mix these things up?

 

Matt:  No, no.

 

Chip:  Okay. 

 

Matt:  Well yeah –

 

Chip:  We’ve got customers out on you know, farmland that are, have like totes and large 40 gallon a minute type dosers, you know what I’m talking about. So yes, totally fine for this just to dump the product in the reservoir, let it sit there, you don’t have to mix it up after it’s mixed.

 

Matt:  Or after it’s mixed. Leland:’s looking at me sideways here. Yeah. The, once yeah, so as you’re, as you’re putting the, the dry powder in the water to make the stock concentrate for the first time, there needs to be agitation and it needs to be mixing.

 

Chip:  Like a paddle or, or you know, a pump, or like –

 

Matt:  Our recommendation is, is the the weaker the agitation, the longer you need to mix it. If it’s mixing vigorously, you’ll watch it. I mean, within minutes to seconds, it’s in there. But much like mixing salt and water, that’s gonna get it all to come off the bottom and look like it’s swirling around. You need to keep mixing it beyond that for some time just to make sure it’s all homogenized and in solution. But everything in it still water-soluble, you follow the instructions, it’s going to dissolve. So if you find that there’s something at the bottom or something isn’t mixed, it’s probably because you added it too fast. Or, you know, hit the bottom, or it didn’t have water in there first. We see a variety of different things, but uh –

 

Chip:  Right, absolutely. What’s the best way to mix this product up? If you’re telling you know, me, Chip: at the Baker Ranch, like hey, how do I, how do you mix it up to 55 gallons? How do you do it?

 

Matt:  So yeah, in 55 gallons?

 

Chip:  No man, let’s say a tote, let’s say a tote.

 

Matt:  So the best way is to like, Mixer Directs Company. You can get it online and they make really high quality industrial mixers that actually go right on top of 250 gallon totes. Or they size them for cone bottoms, or even barrels, they have barrel –

 

Chip:  What’s that, what’s that brand again?

 

Matt:  Mixer Directs, I think they’re out of Kentucky. 

 

Chip:  Mixer Direct. Okay.

 

Matt:  But that’s what we’ve used for gosh, for almost a decade to buy our impellers. But they make them for 55 gallon drums, totes, and huge vats, if you want to.

 

Chip:  Okay.

 

Matt:  But, I would say ideally, you buy an impeller from them that size for your container, they’ll help you out with that. And then you would fill up the, whatever the container is, a drum, a tote halfway up with water, start to get it mixing slowly with that impeller and the water moving, and then start to add the salt. You’ll see the water volume come up. Keep it mixing, add the bags of salt and then top it off to the volume that is your target,  and then check the solution.

 

Chip:  Man you make it, you make it sound so easy. And the math is on your websites, right?

 

Matt:  Oh, it’s on our mixing charts, our websites everywhere. It’s right on the front of the bag actually, in the instructions right on the bag. Yep.

 

Chip:  So, so I can just look up the feed chart for my totes which are these large like, how do you guys I mean, they come in all sizes. How do you guys say the size, 200 gallon or 275?

 

Matt:  I just say it’s a 250 to [inaudible 12:57].

 

Chip:  However many gallons they want in it to stabilize the – alright. So like, we have 275 and we call them two hundreds and we fill it to the 200 one, right?

 

Matt:  And so one time, whether you’re a new customer, or as you call us, like you call Leland or you read the instructions, which is very clear, you would have 200 gallons you’d like, okay, well, in a 50 gallon drum, I put in three bags. So in a 200 gallon tote, I’m gonna put three times four is 12 bags. And that’s it, you know, fill it up to 100 gallons or so, and your 200 gallon tote. Slowly start adding the 12 bags while it’s mixing, maybe a little bit of water as you with that to displacement. And then –

 

Chip:  Cold water? I can use –

 

Matt:  Right so two things here, there’s a little bit of –

 

Chip:  Those be out on the farm, man, you know –

 

Matt:  Room temperature or hot. But if –

 

Chip:  It’s better.

 

Matt:  Yeah, if it’s warm, it’s going to mix better. If it’s –

 

Chip:  Alright, what if it’s coming right out of the ground? ‘Cause that, many of these people you know, and myself, we have to come right out of the ground into like, our water store area.

 

Matt:  Ideally above 65 or 66. But the lower the temperature is, you’re gonna have to mix it longer. 

 

Leland:  [inaudible 14:04] solution, longer mixing, yep.

 

Chip:  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just got to put some time into mixing it.

 

Matt:  Yeah, I mean, if you’re using a 58 degree water, trust me, it’ll go in, but you’re going to spend two or three hours mixing that.

 

Chip:  Right, right. And with this, with the, with the agitating mixer you were talking about, you just turn it on and walk away.

 

Matt:  Yeah, I mean, and we don’t recommend this but we’ve, were at a grow doing a site visit in Washington a couple weeks ago. And the guy had an impeller on the end of a cordless drill. 

 

Chip:  Sure.

 

Matt:  30 seconds to a minute, we sat there. And it was definitely mixed in the solution. And then we came back about every five minutes and mixed it for 15 minutes, and called it good after, I mean after about 15, 20 minutes.

 

Chip:  Oh, right.

 

Matt:  Then it got mixed three or four times and it was good to go. I told him I would say you know, I would definitely mix it longer. But it validated, it checked out and that’s the tools you had on hand. So yeah.

 

Chip:  Alright, right. I mean, you could use a paddle you just, you know might have to like, you know –

 

Leland:  You’ll sit there for a while.

 

Chip:  Yeah, l mean that’s how we used to make ice cream right?

 

Matt:  People use Monde pumps in the bottom, I mean, but it’s, like Leland: said,  it just lower agitation, longer mixing time, lower temperature, longer mixing time.

 

Leland:  You can let it sit and mix overnight, or you can heat up your water overnight and mix into warm water. You know, there’s, there’s a couple different ways to solve it. Yeah, generally the recommendation, just because I like things easy is to try and get the water hot. So if I know that I’m going to have temperature issues, mixing my stock tanks, then I’ll plan for it, it’s something you only have to do every month or two.

 

Chip:  Dump all my water out of the well into the stock tanks one day, come back the day later, and it’s gonna be –

 

Leland:  Another yeah. Another note is that you’d want to use RO water if you’re gonna be mixing stock concentrates, just because the carbonates and other minerals that you’ll find in the well are gonna interact with the mix, it’s a concentrated mixture.

 

Chip:  So you just spend some time and get the RO on the stock tank –

 

Leland:  Only on the concentrates.

 

Chip:  Yeah, only on the concentrates.

 

Matt:  And remember, a really good point though is we do find to which is interesting,  people will mix smaller volumes for some reason. And once it’s mixed in solution, I mean, whether it’s weeks or months, unless you’re sitting on a freezing cold floor outside or something crazy, it’s going to stay in solution for an incredibly long period of time. So mix something that lasts you several weeks to a month, a month and a half. Not something every other day.

 

Chip:  Yeah, absolutely. So we’ve got our, we’ve got our stock tank, we have our totes, they’re out on the farm, they’re on the back 40. Literally, that’s what we call it, the back 40. We’re on the back 40 –

 

Matt:  Thought this was someone else. 

 

Chip:  And, quote unquote. Nothing for sale here, everything’s legal.

 

Zach:  You know, and then we’re taking our injectors of choice, you know, dose trying and kind of sets the standard in the game.

 

Chip:  We’ve used it all. That’s what we use currently. We sell them every single day at Cultivate Colorado, we’re probably one of their largest vendors for it so.

 

Zach:  You have set up many happy customers with those trumps, I have seen that.

 

Matt:  Yeah, I think we’re, what we’re talking about today it’s the, a good injection ranges anywhere from 0.2% up to the 2%. injectors, which is like the [inaudible 17:12].

 

Leland:  Yep. Yeah, the MC-2.

 

Matt:  Yeah, exactly, yeah.

 

Leland:  That’s a great, great little workhorse. But uh, yeah, so as far as injection goes, and if you’re following our instructions, you’re injecting at around 1:250 ratio. So that’s sitting you anywhere between, you know, like around 20 to 22 milliliters per gallon in veg, if you want to feel like you would typical liquid nutrients. All the way to like, if you’re using all three parts in flower, we’d be closer to 10 to 15 milliliters. So it’s got a little bit of a range. And mixing in no liquid makes it easier to make those adjustments if you wanted to, if you’re looking to be hitting a target EC. After everything’s mixed, it’s all being used at a one to one ratio. So you know, if you’re using 14 mLs of A, using 14 of B, 14 in Bloom.

 

Chip:  So you know, you just mentioned something many of our customers do use Dositrons and they’re great, you know, siphoning injection system. There’s many other types. And one of the types that we frequently see customers come in, they have like a high rate of 1  to 1 hundredth, or just a set rate of 1 to 100 when they come in. How do you use your product that way?

 

Matt:  Well, Leland actually – and the only reason I was interrupting was because he helped build some of the sheets for our fixed injection rates. 

 

Chip:  Great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This comes up every day, because quite, question almost every day.

 

Leland:  Yeah. So assuming that you’re mixing our formula to our instructions on this coming  at around a 1 to 250, maybe 1 to 200 ratio. So you’re literally just going to be cutting our application rates in half. If you have a fixed injection rate of 1 to 100. Or if it’s a 1 to 350, which is pretty common too, then you can mix our concentrates even worse, even more concentrated. But we’re only at about 20 to 30% of our maximum solubility. So you can mix it even stronger if you want, it’s going to be…

 

Chip:  If it’s a 1 to 100 hundredth injector, how do you mix it?

 

Leland:  So you’re going to take our recommended rates and just cut that in half. So for recommending for a 55 gallon drum, and you’re adding four bags of A to mix your stock concentrate, you’re just going to add two bags of A. Now one thing, one thing to note, if you’re going to be doing that and mixing at a lower concentration, is that you’re probably only going to have about two weeks to a month of usage rate out of that concentrate. Since it’s at that lower rate, it’s –

 

Zach:  It’s going to eat it up.

 

Leland:  Stuff can, stuff can start growing in there a little easier, yeah. 

 

Matt:  Yeah. I think what Leland’s trying to say too, is it’s probably smarter too, than go through it faster. Because it’s, because it’s so diluted, but you’re injecting twice as much. 

 

Chip:  Oh, right. Because it’s, I see, I see. Conservative issue associated with all the product too, so there’s more water in it and right.

 

Leland:  Yeah, and in our typical concentrate, you can put it in a clear, in a clear jug and nothing will grow in it. Because the pH is so low and there’s so much fertilizer in it. Now you start cutting it and it’s a prime area for anything to grow in a petri dish.

 

Chip:  Okay, so that’s how we make stock concentrates for reservoirs. What if I want to make a gallon stock concentrate to be, to be used out? Is it the same way?

 

Leland:  Same way.

 

Chip:  Same way.

 

Matt:  Sorry – no, I was just gonna say our five pound instructions for either smaller commercial facilities or hobbyists, it’s the same instruction sheet that we have. You know, instead of being in a, in a 55 or 50 gallon drum, it’s in a five gallon bucket and or, you know, what, or one of the old liquid nutrient five gallons you’ve kept people make them in that all the time.

 

Chip:  Yeah, those are great, because then you can just – well, the two and a halves are great, because you can shake it up. Shake it up.

 

Matt:  And in our instructions too now are, we try to avoid using a scale to make this stock concentrate because it’s easier and faster. We say, X amount of bags for X amount of gallons and then check it. And it’s either if it’s too strong, cut it a little bit. 

 

Chip:  On the smaller scale, you have to weigh it out.

 

Matt:  Yeah, well, yeah. And you can , you can.

 

Chip:  You can. Right, right, right, right. And then they had that stock gallon or two and a half gallon, and they take that and there’s instructions also on your website on how to use that stock solution by the tablespoon or the milliliter reservoir.

 

Leland:  Yeah, same way we’re used to do it.

 

Chip:  Right. Same way you’re used to. Alright, so you’re basically making your own fertilizer, right? At home or at your you know, at your grow, you bring in dry powder, which is easier to get in, which is more cost effective, it’s better for the world. You’re making your own stock concentrate that you’re keeping in your own one gallon, two and a half gallon, five gallon, 55 Gallon, 200 gallon. And then you get to use it you know, at will. You can use it with a injection system at varying injection rates, or by the milliliter or tablespoon per gallon in a traditional reservoir.

 

Matt:  You can go right out of the bag dry, right into your reservoirs as well.

 

Chip:  Yeah, let man, let because you don’t have to make a stock concentrate.

 

Matt:  No, you do not. And I would say –

 

Chip:  Most people don’t.

 

Matt:  Exactly. As much as I want people to, to inject and make our stock concentrate and enjoy that, I would say a super majority of our customers actually go right out of the bag into a reservoir like we all did. One thing I wanted to mention on shipping costs that’s kind of mind boggling is on a pallet of liquid product, you can fit 200 gallons on that pallet. We get, or 250 if you order a tote, where you can put the equivalent in dry of 2000 gallons of stock concentrate, that fits on that same palette. And then also typically our shipping costs instead of shipping that weight of water, and then because the units, it’s about five to 10 times cheaper in shipping as well.

 

Chip:  Shipping it’s, it’s such an economic cost and environmental cost, man. There’s more than one way to care about the environment than just growing organically and it’s shipping and packaging, you know movement of people in materials over space and time. Man, we really got to think about that as an industry and as businesses. One, It makes us more money the more effective we are with it., but it’s better for the world.

 

Matt:  Keep telling Zach to stop flying his private jet everywhere.

 

Chip:  Oh, Zach, what kind of jet you got?

 

Zach:  I can’t tell you. We’ll go, leading off of that, and I guess this is something that I like to focus on a lot is that us compared to some of our competitors to reach a desired outcome of your EC, a lot of these other companies that are powdered, dry fertilizers, you’re having to hit numbers, sometimes double the amount of the input that you can reach a high or desired EC than with ours. So let’s just say by chance, you know, it’s competitor A or whatever it is, to reach 2.0 EC are using let’s just say, 4 grams across the board each of ours. So you’d have to use 6 or 8, even, even more grams per gallon to reach that 2.0 EC. So, not only are you having a savings originally when you buy our product not only from dry to dry, but also dry a liquid. But then on top of it, the savings comes in from the amount that you use grams per gallon or mLs per gallon to equal your desired EC.

 

Matt:  And we do, we hear that all the time as well. I had to use this product at 30 EC and I want to use yours at a 24 or 25, and you’ll compare the product and it’s well at 2.4, we have the same ppm of nitrogen and potassium phosphorus and meaningful things. But in order to achieve those same rates of micros or even macros, they have to use substantially more conductivity to get the same amount of, same amount of product that we offer.

 

Chip:  Hey guys, just a quick break to tell you about Cultivate OKC, Cultivate Colorado. You know, I got into the hydroponic supply business 2009. I had wanted to open up a retail hydroponic store for years and I was already making potting so at that point, maybe some fertilizers and some other stuff I was into. You know, I hadn’t opened up a retail shop and got this opportunity to open one up in California. Right as I was fixing open up down in Riverside, Colorado came along. Ended up being better bigger opportunity. Opened up our Colorado stores and you know, man is just we’ve been off to the races ever since. Now, we’re in Colorado and in Oklahoma, we ship all over the country and even the world, man. It’s amazing the people that call us, contact us that needs, that need some, some, some equipment to grow their fine cannabis with. So if you need any help, any equipment, you want to come to a great grow store where people don’t judge you, we’re not clique-oriented, we’re just there to help you grow. Man, come see us at Cultivate. Cultivate Colorado, we’re on exit 206 I-25. We’re also on the Stapleton Monaco exit there on I-70. And down in Oklahoma City, our newest store and man probably our nicest showroom right now is we’re right on the corner of 10th in Meridian. So come check us out, 1101 North Meridian. Yeah, man. Got any questions about growing no matter if you’re big or small, just come on in. We’ll be glad to chat with you. Hey, guys, I know everyone who’s listening. We all love The Real Dirt. I mean, I love The Real Dirt. But you know what I love even more than The Real Dirt is actually growing in dirt. That’s right, Growers high porosity coco formula, that’s my potting soil. Man, I’ve gone through so much trouble and research to build the cleanest, most effective potting soil for growing cannabis. Man, we built all this stuff inside. I break all the pallets, all the raw materials down on, on the morning. I push it through our machine, we use a series of conveyor belts, there’s no cross contamination, everything’s machine mixed. It’s all made and mixed by volume. It goes directly into bag. By the end of the day, everything that we started at the start of the day, all the raw materials, they’ve turned into bagged product that’s all stored inside. Now, the importance of this is many, many other, every other potting soil company, they don’t do it like that. Here’s how they do it. They take their raw materials, whether it’s coco, peat, perlite, pumice, compost, sand, whatever they got, and they make a huge pile of it outside with big industrial equipment. They use tons of diesel to do this, tons of diesel fuel on the grinders, on the screeners, on the loaders. And they leave the huge piles out that’s just like, the petri dish for cross contamination from weed seeds, bugs, whatever, whatever is capable of living in it. And it does and it will, and then they take these piles and they bring them into another facility that’s probably also not indoors, very few of them are. They’re usually covered tin sheds or something like that. And they, they bag up the potting soil, they wrap it up, pallet it up, clean it off nice and pretty. And then when it gets shipped to you, you think it’s this great product, but in reality, it’s just like some dirt on the ground that people have shoveled up and put it in a nice plastic bag. And the potential for it to be full with everything from root aphids to fungus gnats to contaminants., it is just, it’s mind- boggling actually. At how bad it could be and it’s really not that bad comparatively, but our product is so clean. We go through so much trouble from the RO water to the clean cement, to the way that we move all this product around with conveyor belts instead of using big loaders. I mean, I’ve been making potting soil most of my adult life and I’m now using 1/10th of the petroleum products to make this potting soil. 1/10th. And that’s almost all in diesel fuel, all in propane with forklifts. Because of the way that we’ve situated our plant and made it this really great, environmentally friendly weed-bug-seed-free product. So check it out man, growerscoco.com. Hop on your computer right now. Go to growerscoco.com. Check out our website. If we’re not in your community., ask your local grow store. He can get it in if you’re in Colorado or an Oklahoma, man, come to some Cultivates and we definitely got it. Thanks guys and let’s get back to the episode.

 

Chip:  So we get the stock tank solution question all the time, we get this question of do I have to make a stock tank. No, you can go right from the powder into your reservoir. Man, the other like, like thing people talk to us about especially here in Oklahoma but also with hemp growers throughout the US is like, how to use it outdoors in the ground, right?

 

Matt:  That’s a great question. Part of, kind of like our water testing, one thing that we do or we look at and we offer and one of the partners at Front Rows is [inaudible 30:26], is we read and analyze your soil tests. Any farmer that’s going to grow outside or cultivator that’s going to grow outside and wants to put their plants in the ground, the first thing we recommend as hiring a company like like Waypoint, for instance, testing your soil. Just taking a standard soil test and going out there and figuring out, “Okay, what’s my [inaudible 30:45], my pH, my organic composition, my pounds of nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus, everything out there. And then we’ll actually look at that with the farmer or the grower. And we’ll say, “Okay, well, you already have this amount of nutrients in the field based on how much the crop is going to use from and the length of your crop. This is what you’ll need to start amending with our product at some point.” And same thing again, though, they can make into a liquid concentrate and inject it in their drip system, they can put it in giant reservoirs, and you know, using on sprinkler heads, whether it’s a center pivot or actual heads. At that point, we see a variety of different things. But we always start with them on a soil test because they might have no food in their, in their field, and need a you know, fertilizer from all of our products. Or they might only need one of our products for two weeks at the end, because the field is super rich in fertilizer already.

 

Leland:  Another point to add to that is, a lot of people like to kind of give salts a bad name, wrecking the earth and polluting the water with nitrates and phosphates.

 

Chip:  ‘Cause that used to be the case, they used to have inferior quality fertilizer.

 

Leland:  Absolutely.

 

Chip:  That’s not what you guys have.

 

Leland:  No, this isn’t an ammonia based fertilizer. Um, you know, like we do, we do rely on some synthetic nitrates, that’s the majority of products out there, even if they’re claiming to be organic, there’s not a lot of soluble forms of calcium out there that don’t include a nitrate with them. So that being said, we’re delivering about 20% less nitrogen to a field as a conventional farmer would recommend. And doing that with the most practical, responsible forms of irrigation possible. So like, we’ll always be recommending is, drip system to be going into a field. That way, we can deliver precise amounts of irrigation, know exactly what the roots are getting in terms of the fertilizer and not just trying to do a broad application, even though it will work in conventional systems. And I’d rather somebody be doing that than throwing, I’d rather somebody use 250 pounds of Front rRw per acre than, and spend a little bit more money versus throwing 200 pounds of ammonium nitrate on a field and hoping for the best. So you’re going to get as much nitrogen out of our system, with our drip system or subterranean system delivering water directly to the root zone. And I mean, there’s guys who conventional corn farmers and wheat farmers who have watched hemp growers row crop and do really, really well with plastic mulch in a drip system, to the point where they’ve gone through and done in the next year for their heirloom strains and hit record yields out of their fields. It’s something that, it’s on the forefront of agriculture, if you don’t see, if you see it as a problem, look at it as a solution to a problem, and to transition into a more responsible way to farm.

 

Chip:  ROI comes in so many different ways on a farm.

 

Leland:  Exactly.

 

Chip:  That’s for sure. And you know, one of the ways we see many organizations have problems, cultivations, they’ll reorganize their facility, they’ll bring somebody in as a manager, a CFO, and the first thing he wants to do, the easiest thing he wants to do to make himself look good. Hey, you guys are in this position, either don’t do it or recognize it, it’s happened, the first thing they do is like, we’re gonna cut our production costs, and we’re gonna get the cheaper shit. And man, you know, there’s one thing and getting the same thing, the exact same product at a better discount from a vendor. But like when you, when you say you’re going to get a cheaper product, there’s outcomes that you pay for, right? And that cheap product, you know, you will lose out in time and wait, right? Time, the most crucial part of it, right? But by using these these higher quality cannabis specific dry soluble fertilizers, just like Front Row Ag, man, that ROI comes back immediately within 90 days, as soon as you harvest, you know, especially on large scale, it comes back.

 

Matt:  If you’re spending less than 1% of the gross revenue that your product brings in on fertilizer, then you’re exactly where you need to be. And I would say we’re well below that. And so there are products you should spend money on though, is what I’m getting at.

 

Chip:  Yeah, yeah.

 

Matt:  Like Leland brought up in terms of fertilizers you shouldn’t spend your money on as well. 

 

Chip:  Yeah. So we’re talking outdoor in the ground. What about outdoor and pots?

 

Matt:  Yeah, same thing. We [inaudible 34:58], I mean, I run some pretty large outdoor grows and pots, yeah.

 

Chip:  Oh yeah, I’m a container grower. I love it, man. I love it.

 

Matt:  You get 45 and 50 gallon pots, we use 12 foot metal stakes, we drive into the ground, put up a shade ourselves and then run trails and it’s kind of like growing an indoor plant huge outside. It’s eight foot by six foot centers.

 

Chip:  Oh wow and 40 gallon pot. So you’re like, you’re like feeding it, feeding it constantly with Front Row.

 

Matt:  Yeah, beginning, well, beginning of the season, we like to definitely let our plants dry down in terms of letting the roots spread promoting oxygen in the soil, at the sites that we’re running. But, uh, yeah, I mean, the plant goes in typically coming out of a one gallon into that one large pot, and it’s going to dry down for several weeks, between its first irrigation and watering, and its second one. And then pretty rapidly, the irrigation events get quicker and quicker and quicker and quicker. And at some point in flower, we’re watering, you know, sometimes every day to every couple days, and those giant pots, still. I mean, you have some plants that are easily six to eight feet tall and [inaudible 35:57] out if not still 10 feet tall.

 

Chip:  I love containers of all size. But you know the thing, the great thing outside about like that 30, 45 gallon container is, you know, you really get to feed it like an indoor plant. You know, you can get them huge, but I like the smaller plants. And we’ve even run like four plants and a 440 gallon pot, you know, four foot tall, and it just be this. I mean, the some of the highest weight we’ve ever seen, honestly, you know, it’s basically out of a pot. But it far be the just single huge monster plant out of it. But yeah, we, so small containers, big containers, it doesn’t matter, you can, you can use the same, same fertilizer rates as you would indoors.

 

Matt:  Well I mean, and this is important actually, internally, we’ve been talking about this as how to address different feed charts and pot sizes and things of that nature. And without going down a giant rabbit hole, generally, the larger and larger and larger the pot gets, and the longer of time you have between an irrigation event, you need to increase the EC pretty proportionately too. You know, so if you’re in a 5 gallon to a 25 gallon, there needs to be a substantial increase in the conductivity you’re feeding in the start of that schedule and how it tapers down. And then the other thing is, is when there’s a large amount of time between irrigating and you’re using a high quality fertilizer that’s acidic, the pH is going to drive down as well. So you need to actually feed at a higher pH as well.

 

Chip:  Higher pH meaning?

 

Matt:  Well as you know, so a lot of times, you know, if you’re feeding it say  a 2.0 and a 6,0 pH, the 2.0 you see and a 6.0, and you’re in a three gallon. Let’s say then you step it up even into a five gallon and you’re feeding at 24, you already should be feeding at maybe like a 6.2 or 6.3. And then if you’re transplanting and when we transplant into five gallons, or even seven gallons, we’ll feed as high as 2.8, 3.0 UC. And at that point, our pH is you know, 6.5 to 6.7. And then but still, we’ll watch it dry down for 20 some days between that, that really heavy irrigation and sticking in the clone. And you’ll get the runoff and it’ll be in the low to mid fives actually by the time we would irrigate again. And that’s how far it’s come down. But if you fed that plant in at 6.0, I mean, the pH would be in the really, really low fives to high fours, and the plant wouldn’t look good. Like drafting proportionally, somebody’s gonna make the graph someday, of you know the drawback of given media’s coco, rock or peat moss, even probably different soil blends uhm, showing as they dry back X amount of percent, 10%, the EC is going to go up by 10% as well. And the pH is going to decrease by X amount of percent depending on the components, the fertilizer. So as your media dries out, and the plant leaves some of those ions on the table that are registering a charge, the water becomes more concentrated, so to speak. So if you’re going in to, like Matt said, by the time the plant’s ready for another drink, there’s probably a lot of unused fertilizers still left in that source water or stuff that’s been displaced and exchanged with the media, that you’re either going to be rinsing out or rehydrating with the plant uptake.

 

Matt:  A misconception too and in growing, potted liner is I guess from – I’m using the ag term – anything that’s in a container, whether it’s a one gallon to 200 gallon. It’s been a misconception in the cannabis industry that there’s no other plant that’s grown this way, in a potted liner or you’ll open a book that tells you to grow it this way which is start off at a lighter, a lighter feed solution and increase it as the plant gets more mature and drinks faster. Every plant that’s going to contain a potted liner would be recommended from a peer reviewed source to be watered in a way that when the dry down is longer, and the, let the roots spread fastest and the plant to grow at the fastest rate, you want to be the highest availability of food when a drink, when there’s the longest amount of time between irrigating. Then, as the plant starts to drink faster and faster and faster and faster, and you water more and more often, you cut the feed solution so you don’t burn your crop. And that would be how any period read source would actually tell you to grow rhododendrons or roses or chrysanthemums.

 

Chip:  So opposite of the way the cannabis industry does which is like, start it off soft and then jacket, right? Jack it and then go soft.

 

Leland:  And you’ll see our feed chart as well. Our feed chart, whether it’s a two gallon or a three gallon feed chat, or we’re telling you to grow in a large pot, it’s going to start off at a high conductivity and taper off as you irrigate more rapidly.

 

Chip:  Yeah, yeah, no, I have noticed that on your, your formulation. And I’ve had people ask me about it. And I’m like, I don’t know, just follow the chart. Everybody does it, it works. Right? 

 

Leland:  Good answer. 

 

Chip:  It’s a good answer. And, you know, I mean, you know, I’ve been, I’ve been involved in agriculture my whole life. And though I almost had this really inquisitive phase, where I wanted to know reasons for everything, and there’s just too much question in the world. And so I’ve had to, like, reduce, like, where I want my brain power to be, right? And sometimes I just like, I don’t know how it works, I don’t care, right? Because I got my brain power on something else, to me might be more important. And I don’t necessarily want to, like know, like everything about, you know, a bug or a fertilizer. Even though I’m interested in all that –

 

Leland:  Yeah you wish you could, but you gotta move past it.

 

Chip:  Yeah, you just gotta, gotta move past it. For instance, you know, people ask me all the time about, “Hey, can you identify this bug?” And I’m like, “No, but I can tell you what can take care of it,” right? You know, because it’s also solution-oriented. And that’s back to the like, follow the feed chart. Everybody says it works. Just do what they say, right? So outdoor, in the ground, outdoor in the pots, you know, greenhouse in the pot, same as outdoor in the pots, right?

 

Matt:  I mean, greenhouse, indoor, outdoor, I mean, a lot of containers, a lot of for us is understanding your environment too. Like, we’ll talk to you when you, when you call Leland or Farmer John or any of the guys, myself included, we’ll be, we’ll talk to you about, well what’s your lighting intensity? How dry it is, how humid it is, you know, what’s going on in the space? And the pot size, the media you’re growing in. And we’ll talk about all these different things and have a discussion instead of just you know, being your normal consultant that says, “Here’s what you have to do. And you got to do it now,” and never listens to you.

 

Chip:  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, man, when we’re done with this, we’ll go next door and you can tell us how to do it, man. My wife has a clone nursery dispensary just right next door. It’s Baker’s Medical, it’s in OKC. We’ll go over there next you guys could check me. Yeah, you saw it earlier. That’s right, Matt. We’ll go over there and you guys can give me like a detailed on what we’re doing. We got some like, random things, you know, we’re just like, “Oh, the plants don’t look healthy, change this or that.” We’ll look and see what the mills of everything are currently. And you guys can give me some idea, right? The technical advice has been incredible here. We’ve talked about stocks, tanks, we talked about reservoirs, indoor, outdoor greenhouse, man. And we’ve talked about pH significantly. But I really want to talk about this, because this is something that confuses people. And like, here in Oklahoma, the pH out of the, out of the ground or out of the tab is like 8.5 often. And you know, like what’s the best way to deal with PH in your product? And or some of the ways that are the best ways to accomplish this?

 

Leland:  In terms of pH in the product, when you’re using it?

 

Chip:  pH in the product, you’re using or if you’re in a situation that’s like, a large scale outside where you can’t necessarily pH it or how do you deal with it?

 

Matt:  Well, we’d check your ppm. So if you’re, if you’re historically , if you have a high pH in your source water, and when I mean a high pH , it’s above 8, there’s a lot of carbonate and bicarbonate in the water, about 50% of the water is going to be carbonate bicarbonate. So if you have 400 parts per million water, 200 parts per million of that 8 to 8.5 or 9 pH is going to be carbonate bicarbonate. And that’s important though, because that’s easy to get rid of. You can put in holding tanks and actually just use acid and precipitate off all that bicarbonate, and that’s filtering your water through acid injection basically. And then the other thing is, is understanding what the remainder of that water is. If it’s calcium or magnesium –

 

Chip:  What kind of acid?

 

Leland:  You could use phosphoric acid, sulfuric acid.

 

Zach:  And you can get lysergic if you have enough of it.

 

Chip:  Oh, excellent, that’s my choice.

 

Leland:  But yeah, you can go –

 

Chip:  But you don’t want that to go down.

 

Leland:  if you’re concerned about clogs –

 

Zach:  You’d be using like, four grams a gallon. Not very cost effective.

 

Leland:  But no yeah, and if you’re concerned about cost, sulfuric acid spray probably the cheapest.

 

Chip:  Yeah, it’s, sulfuric acid is common in the agriculture industry, right?

 

Leland:  Oh, all the time.

 

Chip:  Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

 

Matt:  They  take up in a lot of places. That’s what I would I would look at first is what is what’s, what’s my water? You know, what is that 400 or, or 800 part per million? Because a lot of the time it’s not a big deal. You can get rid of you know, half of the bad things in it with acid and then you use some of the remainder of it, you can probably use.

 

Chip:  Right. And so you just like, have a big holding tank, drop the pH with sulfuric acid, and the bicarbonate drops out of solution. 

 

Leland:  It actually turns into CO2 and off gases.

 

Chip:  Okay, excellent. So you don’t even have any reservoir sediment at the bottom of your tank.

 

Leland:  No, no. And then –

 

Chip:  And do you have to drop your pH at any level for that? Or just…

 

Leland:  Around, below five is recommended. That’s a really loose recommendation, because say someone who’s using RO water, which is not part of this conversation, it would take such a small amount to get it to be that go down. But in high pH water, I would say get it below five, and then check it often, about every hour to three hours, if you check it, you’ll start to watch the pH drift upward. And that’s your acid actually working and precipitating off of the carbonate. But if it keeps drifting up, it means that there’s not enough in there. So you want it to hold pH actually. 

 

Chip:  Okay. So you drop it to 5, and then it holds pH at..?

 

Leland:  It should stay around 5, but you’ll watch it go up and then add a little more so that you can get it to stay there.

 

Chip:  I see. And then when you reuse it in your reservoir, you just add, you just the new, you increase the pH or the fertilizer..?

 

Leland:  I would keep track of how much you use the first couple times, because then you’ll probably use about that same amount of acid every single time. And then at that point, if there’s not, if you haven’t used an excessive amount, run it in your injectors, and then use pH up to correct it. You’ll have added enough acid to precipitate off the bicarbonate, but there won’t be a lot left over to ruin the water quality. So then, just run it in your injectors and use pH up would be my recommendation. And at that point, we recommend potassium carbonate for the pH.

 

Chip:  Oh, okay. Sure. Sure,.

 

Leland:  Just like tables.

 

Chip:  You’re mixing them immediately with the Dositrons.

 

Leland:  Yeah, if you’re doing that, or if you’re going into a reservoir, pump it into a giant reservoir, throw in the fertilizer, and then adjust the pH just like you would with anything else. But ideally, ideally, if you’re you know, if you’re on a well, and you’re having to condition your water beforehand, you can get it to where you’ve got the perfect ratio of bicarbonate. That way, you don’t have to pH anymore, and you can kind of set it and adjust based on how heavy you’re going to be feeding and no, I’m adding less acidity later on in my cycle, so I’m going to need a little bit more aggressive of a pH. 

 

Chip:  That’s a great tip. I was trying to get to that earlier. So like you know, the best thing to do is to drop it down to 5 initially and get it to go up to 6.

 

Leland:  Yeah, if you’re anticipating it’s gonna rise by 10% or so. Um, you know, if that’s what you’ve seen is everybody’s gonna have a different experience. Water is pretty fickle. 

 

Matt:  I’m gonna say though the fertilizer takes about 80 to 120 parts per million bicarbonate carbonate to pH it like he said. To about you know, and that’s if you’re feeding anywhere from 1.6 up to 2.5. It’ll take between 80 and 120 parts per million. But if you leave some amount in there, then you won’t need pH up. It’ll just come out and then adjust itself.

 

Chip:  Sure. Sure. Now, I get it, man. Oh, man, that’s a great tip for so many people’s watering  at home, man.

 

Matt:  Yeah, ’cause that would be about right., somewhere in like the, you would want it to drift up to like the mid 6s.

 

Chip:  Mhm. Okay, okay. 

 

Leland:  I have the lucky water. I had Front Row at like 2.2, EC. My water goes down to about 5.9. And it’ll usually be resting at about 6.3, which for me is perfect watering daily in coco. 

 

Chip:  So many growers in Oklahoma are going to just rewind this past eight minutes and listen to this pH thing. This is such a crucial issue here. Because the water quality and then the bug pressure, right? And as soon as you get you know, off pH you know the bug pressure comes in, the mold comes in and it’s you know, your yields are going down and your water consumption;s changing. It’s like pH is just so crucial. And it’s often misunderstood. So many people don’t think you need to adjust the pH, especially if you’re using organic ingredients. And maybe there’s some argument for that. But most people that’s not the case at all. You have to control your pH no matter what your fertilizer source, right? In some way, it’s got to balance each other out, right? Acidity and alkalinity or you have to force the balance.

 

Matt:  Yeah. Soil’s got to control the pH , the water’s got to control the pH, but one of them has to.

 

Chip:  Yeah, one of them have to. You have to know what it is. It’s one of the most important things about growing cannabis.

 

Zach:  And we can also like you said, if they keep rewinding, and we can, if they just go on to the website, and leave their information, put an email in there. Matt, I’m sure can write up a candid email about this and then be able to send it off. So people have that as well.

 

Leland:  All of this conversation all day, that was, that was eight minutes of my life right there. Guys, reach out.

 

Matt:  Yeah. And then back to using your water, I think to be clear, the worst water contaminant that we’re looking for is sodium usually. I mean, we look for heavy metals, but they’re rare. We’ll look for nitrates, because they’re not good for people. But when we, when Leland: and I get a water report nine times out of 10, we’re looking for sodium. And we check out the calcium magnesium rates. But if your water starts to get above 30, 40 parts per million sodium, that’s going to, no matter what you’re using, it’s going to start affecting your quality in some shape or form. But if it’s not there and it’s bicarbonates and calcium, and magnesium, and other things, it’s very usable water.

 

Chip:  Right. Yeah, absolutely. Well man, I think it’s the perfect time to take a break. This has been The – and is, this is The Real Dirt. And today, it’s The Real Dirt with Front Row Ag. Hey, roll up another fat one. Look up one of my websites called cultivatecolorado.com, realdirt.com, growerscoco.com or hey, man, we’re talking about Front Row Ag, look up frontro2

The Real Dirt on Growing with Salts [Front Row Pt. 1]

The Real Dirt on Growing with Salts [Front Row Pt. 1]

Growing cannabis with salt fertilizers and powder nutrients

Powder nutrients, liquid nutrients, salts….what’s the difference? Probably not as much as you might think.

There’s no shortage of controversial debates among cannabis growers:

And the list goes on…

But a debate that has become more popular recently is one with a lot of misconceptions, and that debate is growing with salts vs anything else.

What are Salts?

Just like the word “organics” can cover a wide range of nutrients, micronutrients and other inputs, the word “salts” covers a wide range of naturally or synthetically derived minerals that are beneficial to cannabis cultivation. The name comes from the consistency of the product which can look like coarse or rounded salt.

The real difference between salts and liquid nutrients is, well, the liquid. That’s about it really.

Liquid nutrients are more or less salts that have been dissolved or mixed with water and bottled. In other words liquid nutrients are diluted salts.

For most salts and liquid nutrients, that’s where the differences end. So if that’s the case, which should you choose?

Front Row Ag and the benefits of Salts

Front Row Ag is a small-team nutrient company that created a 3-part line of salts that is easy to use, leading a lot of growers to make the switch from liquid nutrients. From application to impact, the difference with Front Row Ag nutrients is clear.

In Part 1 of The Real Dirt ft. Zach, Leland and Matt from Front Row Ag, Chip and the guys start scratching the surface of why Front Row went with a synthetic salt product, how they have become so popular over the last couple of years, the right and wrong ways to mix a reservoir and more.

Transcript

Chip:  Hey welcome once again to another fabulous episode of The Real Dirt. And today, it’s The Real Dirt with Front Row Ag. Hey man, you know, we sell tons of different products at Cultivate Colorado, Cultivate OKC. Hey look, there’s somebody wanting to buy some products right now. Front Row Ag is one of our more popular dry soluble products. Man today I’ve got Matt: Zealand. It’s a team of Zach and Leland together, the sales team, the technical support team Zealand. No, Zach and Leland and Matt. These guys, Matt’s the product formulator for the company, Zach and Leland, they’re the product technical support sales staff. And man, we’re really excited about this product. At Cultivate Colorado, Cultivate OKC, we have turned so many commercial and home growers onto this. It is such a great and easy product to use. And hey, man, thanks for you guys showing up here today.

 

Front Row:  Appreciate it. Thanks for having us.

 

Chip:  Alright. So yeah, man, what do we got here? Let’s uh, what kind of weeds did you guys bring? This import you got here? What’s, what’s going on? I hadn’t seen any other [inaudible 1:33] doughnuts. Did you, did you have any donuts

 

Zach:  I had some donut.

 

Chip:  Yeah, that’s gonna be my new Oklahoma strain called Donut.

 

Zach:  Donuts?

 

Matt:  Coffee and donuts.

 

Chip:  Coffee and donuts, because most people don’t, people don’t understand Oklahoma’s known for many things. Donut shops, independent donut shops all over Oklahoma. Massage parlors, and now, cannabis dispensaries. They’re everywhere. On every block in every corner, you’ll see those three things. 

 

Matt:  Interesting.

 

Chip:  And I’ll tell you, but I tell you what’s hard to find though, is weed that smells this good. Man, this is really, really, really great looking smelling ganja. Mmm, you know, I usually don’t smoke on my show. But I’m gonna ask you to pass a paper and a grinder over here and we’ll put it together. 

 

Matt:  You got it. It’s an honor.

 

Chip:  So yeah, Front Row, man. These guys have brought a great product to the market. It is market driven, what customers want, what commercial gardeners want. And today, we’re gonna tell you everything about it. And man, I’m just gonna go ahead and preface this, these guys did not pay at all for the advertisement on this. But this will be very much like an infomercial, because we’re gonna tell you exactly how to use this product or all of their products. A and B Bloom SI Bio – is it bioflow?

 

Leland:  Bioflow.

 

Chip:  Bioflow and Unleash. We’re gonna give you the technical details for outdoor, indoor greenhouse, in the ground, pots, drip, sprinklers. So sit back, roll the largest joint you can and join us for this episode of The Real Dirt. Alright, Zach: tell us about Front Row Ag, how you started and where we are today.

 

Zach:  So we started with Front Row Ag approximately two years ago, the product was developed by Matt: Karen, somewhere about seven years ago.

 

Matt:  Still can’t say my last name. 

 

Leland:  Yeah, started yeah, we started the product about five years ago. And I met Zach and the guys two years ago.

 

Zach:  Yep. So around two years ago, my business partner Patrick and I took over distribution of the products pretty much worldwide. And here we are today in Oklahoma, a few years later.

 

Chip:  Oklahoma clap.

 

Zach:  Oklahoma. There we go.

 

Chip:  You know, Matt, you said you’d been working on this project for a number of years. You’re, you’re in Michigan, is that right?

 

Matt:  No, I live in Northern Phoenix.

 

Chip:  You’re in, you’re in Arizona?

 

Matt:  Yep. Started growing in Colorado back in 2008, 2009 in Fort Collins and Loveland area. And then I’ve been cultivating for the better part of 10 or 11 years. And five years ago, you know, really had the idea for making the fertilizer well before that, but love growing. It’s really what I, what my passion was and always wanted to do. And so I stayed out of sales and making products and doing that business. At a certain point we saw a really, really high need for saving people money delivering a quality formulation. And so we just started making the idea a reality.

 

Chip:  Man so, you know, I’m always interested in that business spark and what brought you to it. What were,  what was kind of like the key reason that you wanted to develop this, this type of dry fertilizer product that’s for the cannabis industry?

 

Matt:  Well, from a community perspective, just saving people money and not taking advantage of them. With [inaudible 5:14], the straw that broke the camel’s back for me and deciding to start dedicating less time to cultivation management, consulting for other people’s businesses and making a fertilizer, was making fertilizer buy from scratch for five, five acre outdoor farm, and burning it, burning it down as a result of making the fertilizer wrong. And saying, “Well, if it’s as easy as picking up the wrong bag with the same font and letters and colors, and you can ruin millions of dollars worth of weed, it should be a lot easier than that. But you shouldn’t be forced to go to go and spend exuberant amount of amounts of money to make that happen either.” And so we decided we’re gonna start Front Row.

 

Chip:  So you know, many people they say this term like, all the time. “I’m on salts, I’m on salts, I’m on salts.” But it’s really like not exactly what’s going on, right? Like, what they mean is they’re on a dry soluble powder. Tell us kind of like, the difference between, you know, a cheap commercial like, cucumber fertilizer and Front Row.

 

Matt:  The quality of the inputs on any good agricultural fertilizer, you’re going to have a grade. And that grade is you know how well they filtered it, how many contaminants and other things that are going to be in it that you don’t expect. And then, there’s just the quality of the inputs, certain fertilizers are more soluble and less, less soluble than others. And generally, the more soluble they are,  and most cases they’re a better quality, but also more expensive. So a lot of companies can make choices to cut corners and still get you fertilizer in a bottle, but that they just use cheaper and lower quality inputs.

 

Chip:  One of the things that y’alls customers say and Leland, this probably a great like question for you is  ike, how much easier it’s kind of made their lives from using like a 14-part based formula. Because many of these people come from an indoor environment, an inside environment, and now they’re scaling, right?

 

Leland:  Yeah, definitely. We see a lot of people who are super happy with the transitions. I mean, it’s a pretty simple transition overall, there’s nothing to really be concerned about in terms of making the switch onto the salts. That being said, as far as the ease of use, it’s literally a three part blend is what you’re using most of the time. Now we’re nixing out all the Cal mag, any extra micronutrients that you might be adding, and just kind of rolling with an A and a B blend through veg, adding a bloom amendments, so basically a PK booster when you get in the flower. So it’s really, really simple to use. It’s even simpler when we mess the stock on straight, which we’ll get into later. But um, yeah, I got a lot of guys who open their bags, and they’ll either be pre-weighing it, so they can just add it right into a reservoir right away and not have to be messing with the scale. Or, they’re just dissolving it right away into warm water and adding into the reservoir, which compared to mixing multiple bottles, they’re trying to pay attention to weighing anything out exactly, it makes it a lot more streamlined.

 

Chip:  Man I’m sorry, I’m smoking this joint. It’s taste so good. I didn’t hear anything you just said.

 

Leland:  I’m glad you’re enjoying it.

 

Chip:  What were we, what were we talking about? 

 

Front Row  Nothing. Just water, man.

 

Chip:  No, it’s true. And you know, one of the misnomers that maybe non-cannabis industry people don’t realize is that it’s not all the same, right? That those big chunky salts that happened to be in you know, the cucumber food or in their tomato food, or you know that they get at their local feed and seed for 15 bucks for 20 pounds, it’s nothing like this product. Most because it’s the micronutrient. Hey Matt:, let’s, let’s talk about the micronutrients in your product and how it is different from, from, say, you know, I don’t know Jack’s, or Peters, or something like that.

 

Matt:  Well, I think on the micro side, when you start there with say calcium, magnesium is probably the biggest difference in our product, before we get into the the metals. But a lot of other products out in the market just from inclusion standpoint, you find two things, they either try to put too many products, ingredients are in one products. And then they can’t fit enough of the magnesium, the calcium in that bag. And so you end up buying a different additive or a different product they make. Or the industry throughout time has created such an importance on Piquet’s, calcium, magnesium, that they’ve made a belief almost that they have to come in separate bottles and you have to use them in addition. But really it’s just clever marketing or you know, preying on what people have been told over, and over, and over, versus our product because we separate out all the micronutrients and all the calcium into one product. We have a really high inclusion rate of magnesium and calcium, and you don’t have to go buy another product for that. And it’s, makes our product even easier to use as well.

 

Chip:  So you know, this is, the history of cannabis fertilizer is really fascinating to me, because you know, there’s this long agricultural history that’s associated with, with dry products that you mix in a large stock reservoir. You’re shipping around this dry product, but then at some point, I mean, Joe Hydro did this. And you know, did it for all of us, and it was great to some degree in the hydro industry, is they made these products in a liquid form, right? In the 70s, and, you know, that’s when they came out with this first three part 1976 or something like that. Like, that’s products been going on a long time. And y’alls technologies literally liked, developed 40 years later, or something, 30 years later. So you know, you think there’s a considerable amount of technological advancements that have happened in that time. There has been, but in our industry, it’s almost all until now been liquid-oriented, right? Like, you guys got any, I mean as salespeople, you guys got any theories on why we kept a hold of the liquid fertilizers for such a long time?

 

Zach:  I mean, I can speculate. I’ve been selling fertilizers, going into my 13th year, I started with Advanced Nutrients. So that’ll tell you back in the day, you know, selling the liquids and I would say at some level, you know, prior to that, Advanced Nutrients, actually one of their first products was all powder. You can go back and still look at GH, and you can see like even Maxi and all these other products that are still high-selling products in the market. I think that at one point what happened was, it was turned, it turned out to be like an ease of use thing. You know, it’s a hell of a lot easier. Most of the time to measure our mLs compared to grams, people mess that shit up all the time. But you think as –

 

Chip:  They took out liquid mLs.

 

Zach:  Yeah, liquid mLs compare, you know, you’d figure people by then would already figure out how to use some scales.

 

Matt:  Especially the small scale too. One of those, you know, one light, two lights, or four lights?

 

Chip:  Yeah, I mean, it’s two lighters. The two light guys definitely got a scale.

 

Matt:  I think at that level too, the cost don’t matter as much. It’s, you know, you’re a hobbyist and, and the amount that you’re probably going to get per gram or per pound, it’s going to be exuberant. And you’re not as concerned about the liquid fertilizer?

 

Zach:  Yeah, there’s an,  I think at some level too, it was one thing and I always like to put throw this out there too, especially when I’m talking to a larger scale of people that can see like, what’s going on in say, one of the hydro stores and they look at all the bottles. Me personally, I felt blessed to work for Advanced early on with all those bottles because you know, if you look back over 10 years ago, when Big Mike’s split up all those bottles, he taught a lot of growers how to grow. Like most guys, they had all these products in two or three, four bottles. Let’s say five bottles total. 

 

Chip:  Oh yeah.

 

Zach:  Well, he split them up. And yeah, it was a brilliant marketing idea. And it’s the reason why people can even sell liquid fertilizer at the price they do, is because of Big Mike but he split everything up. So people actually had to learn, “Oh, I’m, I’m deficient here or something else is going on here.” So in return, here’s another bottle yes, but here’s why you’re using this, and let me tell you all about it. So it was, it was genius in multiple ways but.

 

Chip:  Yeah, you know, there’s lots of bad feelings or emotions over Advanced Nutrients. But man, I’m gonna tell you what Big Mike really did for us, is he was the first company who’s like, “We’re growing weed bitches.” Right? Like, “This is for weed. This is the two pound plus formula.” Remember that?

 

Zach:  Dude, when I used to walk into a hydro store, I’m -no bullshit. If I start talking Advanced Nutrients, they’re like, “Hey, man, we got to keep us on the down”  I looked at him. I’d be like, “You don’t get my products.” I’m lying. I’m like, “I’m here to teach you how to do this.”

 

Chip:  Yeah, absolutely. Lots of people hated on those guys. And you know, man, honestly, I think they were hated on because they were so successful. And they were pioneers in the industry in so many ways. I mean, they pioneered the ultra expensive supplement, right? I mean, oh my god, they were the first people to have the most expensive supplements.

 

Leland:  They made it fun too.

 

Chip:  They made it fun, yeah.

 

Leland:  And I think that was the real draw to liquid nutrients, was that there was like, you know, if I add this, I might get better results than I did last time. If you keep doing that and getting different results, like –

 

Chip:  Everybody’s got something different to do. I get to be involved with my plant.

 

Leland:  The difference between adding humic acids or adding a, you know, like guanos or just running a product with nothing added to it like, and seeing the nuances that can develop, whether it’s from those products or not, you know, it might just be all placebo, but it works. I mean, it’s definitely a consumer experience to be adding those new things and seeing what’s around the corner.

 

Zach:  That’s a progression thing.

 

Leland:  I apologize.

 

Zach:  No go ahead, that’s kind of a progression thing, too, is like you know, somebody starts off with all these bottles, which is not a bad idea. And then they progress into hopefully they’ll land when they become pros at Front Row. So it’s like they can either become a be like, be a pro. But what’s really cool about our product too, is it’s extremely simplified to where somebody that is using those 15 bottles can understand, “Holy shit, I can use three.”

 

Matt:  Well a lot of growers do as they as they scale up. Even like myself from a couple [inaudible 14:58] to barns, to warehouses, to commercial grows. You have those bottles and you realize well, “I’m probably gonna end up using them all in about the same way throughout the edge, and the same way throughout flower every single time.” And it really doesn’t need to be this complicated or at least have this many steps to the process every single time. I mean originally back in 2010 and ’11, that’s when we’re either using Advanced Nutrients or like, even Neutraplus with a bunch of bags of salt or botanic airs like,  why are we, why we went measuring out every single one of these over, and over, and over again when we just use it the same way?

 

Chip:  Okay, okay. Well if you, if you’ve been listening to the podcast for a while and you know that I like potting soil, make potting soil, coco potting soil, specifically. And you know, I just wanted to talk to you about how much I love coco fiber and why you should use it, and why your plants should be in coco fiber and they’re gonna love it too. One man, my new product Coco’s Growers HP is just an incredibly clean product and made for indoor cultivation. I mean, you can use it anywhere. But man, it is clean as you can get it. We try extremely hard to avoid all cross contamination, all bugs, weeds in seeds, we keep it all inside this manufacturer. All inside, we treat it like a bakery. We start out clean, we in clean, we clean up while we’re going through the day. We really try to take a great effort to put this quality product together. So the number one reason you should use Growers HP is man, it is clean. Number two reason you should use Growers HP is man, this product we have developed it man, almost specifically because we want to see like, just incredible root development and root growth. And that’s what this product does. You know, I used to be a diehard coco only guy, compost coco, and I just saw the benefits of peat. And so we started putting small amounts of peat in it. Man, the roots take off. Coco and peat just blend together so well. So there’s the second reason that you should buy Growers HP is man, just the increased root development. Now the third reason you should buy Coco HP is because man, it’s a really a light potting soil. And when I mean light, I mean that like you can, most people can pick up four bags at once kind of no problem. It’s light like this, because of the way we make it, the way we can control how much water we put in it, we make it a really dry elevation or really dry high elevation area in Colorado. So it dries out really nicely and when it gets into the bag man, it’s as light, it’s lighter than any potting soil of two cubic foot that you can get. So there’s the third reason, man , is it’s really a light a product, that the moisture is controlled in it specifically. Now, the fourth reason man, it’s a real easy one, man. It’s just ’cause your friend Chip asked you to go support him, support The Real Dirt and buy some Growers HP. So there you have it, man. Top four reasons why you should use Growers HP in your garden. Hey guys, just a quick break to tell you about Cultivate OKC, Cultivate Colorado. You know, I got into the hydroponic supply business in 2009. I had wanted to open up a retail hydroponic store for years and I was already making potting soil at that point, maybe some fertilizers and some other stuff I was into. You know, I hadn’t opened up a retail shop and I got this opportunity to open one up in California. Right as I was fixing open up down in Riverside, Colorado came along. Ended up being better, bigger opportunity, opened up our Colorado stores and you know, man is just, we’ve been off to the races ever since. Now we’re in Colorado and in Oklahoma. We ship all over the country and even the world, man. It’s amazing the people that call us, contact us that needs, that need some, some, some equipment to grow their fine cannabis with. So if you need any help, any equipment, if you want to come to a great grow store where people don’t judge you, we’re not clique-oriented. We’re just there to help you grow. Man, come see us at Cultivate. Cultivate Colorado, we’re on exit 206 I-25. We’re also on the Stapleton Monaco exit there on I-70. And down in Oklahoma City, our newest store and man probably like, nicest showroom right now is we’re right on the corner of 10th in Meridian. So come check us out, 1101 North Meridian. Yeah, man,  got any questions about growing no matter if you’re big or small, just come on in. We’ll be glad to chat with you.

 

Chip:  Leland, you brought up a really good point. And Matt, also to talk about yours about this hobbyist level is like, you know, now we look on four lights or six lights as a hobbyist level. But for years like, those guys were like, the dope growers.

 

Matt:  Oh, crushing it.

 

Chip:  Right? And that was how big you got. And so you wouldn’t, the power company or your neighbor wouldn’t come on and knock on your door, right? It didn’t smell so much that like, it caused a problem in the neighborhood. And the power company, if they were looking at your power’s, like “Oh, he likes to be cold, oh, he likes to be warm.” It wasn’t that much power difference, right? But those hobbyists, they were making a lot of money, right? And you know, they were able to like, have great lifestyles and go on, snowboard and surf trips and start families and businesses, and all the crazy things we’ve all seen growers do. But it also gave them all this economy to invest in these expensive products. But they got to do something every day, because it doesn’t take much to grow four lights, right? But you want to be involved, right? And you guys, hey, man, there’s somebody out there who’s lying to all your friends, telling them how hard you’re working, and you only got four lights, but you’re doing pretty well for yourself. It’s cool, we know your secret. 

 

Zach:  Making it sound like a full time job.

 

Chip:  And you’re making it sound like, “No, I gotta go work in the garden.” And it’s just [inaudible 21:23]. What pearl snaps are in this season? 

 

Matt:  [inaudible 21:30].

 

Chip:  But now, my point is it really gave people something to do. And what’s happened now is that the industry changed, and there’s plenty of ganja growing to keep yourself busy, right? And you can’t be screwing around like, every week with like, a complex different formula. And like, and be having employees involved with that type of stuff. You know, even if they’re great employees, people make mistakes. man.

 

Matt:  Also a lot of variables.

 

Chip:  Lots of variables. So previously, when all the growers were entertaining themselves with their fertilizer program, because they didn’t have anything else to do. Now, they get to grow way more weed and they don’t need to think about the fertilizer program.

 

Matt:  We all used to enjoy spending an hour and a half mixing up our reservoirs.

 

Chip:  Oh man the techniques I’ve seen people. I have great little side topic, let’s talk about some reservoir mixing techniques.

 

Matt:  Alright, I’ve got 200 gallon, open reservoirs on the ground where we just have mondi pumps mixed on them.

 

Chip:  Oh, yeah, yeah. That’s, that is a common way, man.

 

Matt:  Standard. 

 

Chip:  Yep, standard, standard mix. The, the no mix is my favorite.

 

Matt:  Oh, man.

 

Chip:  Right?

 

Matt:  Let it go stagnant.

 

Chip:  Fill your reservoir, mix it up once and then –

 

Matt:  Use it all.

 

Chip:  And don’t use it, and it begins to like, create bio funk, you know.

 

Matt:  Oh yeah, it gets funky. One of the barriers we’ve seen though is having a pump that pulls off the bottom, and then pushes the water with an airbrake back in the top. And those recirculating pretty constantly or at least several hours a day.

 

Chip:  There’s several lines out there who say don’t pump the water, because it’s biological life, and it’s going to make it grow, right? That’s not actually the case. Well, we’ll go back, we’re serious now is with your product you don’t have to worry about that. It’s a synthetic soluble salt product, right? If you have clean water going in, then you can just pump to mix the nutrients and not pumping water in for biological life to grow, right? 

 

Matt:  Oh, yeah. I mean, when one unintended consequence when people used to switch over to our fertilizer would shock their systems or clean their lines, they’d call us and be like, “Well, suddenly, there’s a bunch of this residue at the bottom of my tank that wasn’t there before.” And we’re like, “Well, it’s definitely not from the fertilizer, it’s soluble. And you know, you probably made it right.” And then we’d realize though, that it was because there was nothing to feed what used to be in their lines anymore, it was just sloshing out in the bottom of their tanks. And we’re like, “Alright, well shock your system and clean it and it’ll go away and it won’t happen again.”

 

Chip:  Right. Absolutely. You know, we’ve also got Jacob walk into the room, he is head of our commercial sales in Denver and throughout the nation. How’s it going, Jacob?

 

Jacob:  Doing good, doing good. How you guys doing?

 

Chip:  You’re on, you’re sharing mics right here with –

 

Jacob:  I’ll just lean into Leland’s chest here.

 

Chip:  Yeah. He talks so softly. Yeah, no, here, let me get, let me go [inaudible 24:58].

 

Matt:  That’s multiple decibels higher than Leland even from a distance.

 

Chip:  Absolutely. Just turn the mic towards you. There we go. Speak into the mic. Hey, Jacob. You know, we’ve had so many people switch over to Front Row. I mean, I don’t know if this is true, but I guarantee you, we’re one of the world’s largest vendors, right? Of product. Tell me why people switch over, Jacob.

 

Jacob:  Honestly, I would say probably the number one reason people switch over is because of you guys. You guys do a really good job of going out and giving customers the support that a lot of other companies don’t honestly, you know? There’s only a few select companies, I would say, especially nutrient companies that are actively on the ground. You can call them, you can ask a question , you know? A lot of people just kind of buy what’s being sold, you guys buy what works and people, you know, hear about that, they know about it, they hear about it from other growers. It’s more of like a word of mouth, you know what clearly does work, because other people are buying it because of the results they see. Yeah, and the other main reason for people switching over it, I mean, one would be the ease of use. I mean, simple three products, it’s really hard to mess up. You don’t have a bunch of people mixing and matching bottles, it’s also colored. And so you know, why would you ever put in blue twice, just wouldn’t happen. The cost, everyone’s trying to cut costs, but they don’t want to cut quality. You see, the quality still lives up to a lot of the other more expensive nutrient brands. And then just for employment, all of your employees that are at a basic entry level, they don’t really need to know all the intricacies of the product. Like I heard mentioned earlier, you can pre-weigh it out for every reservoir so you can have that control, when you just say, “Hey, put it in bag, A, B, C. Let it mix, move along with your day,” you know? Which I think is very valuable, especially as people scale up.

 

Chip:  Yeah, everybody like, like Ziploc and vacuum seal out some packs for their reservoir so their employees can handle it that way or..?

 

Matt:  Yeah. And one thing Jacob: brought up that’s super important is our customer service. Like I don’t think it could be understated as our team, they have real cultivation experience. Whether it’s years and years in their own, in their own gardens, or actual commercial facilities. And then the owners of the, of the company as well are commercial, commercial growers. And so any day of the week, you can call us and reach out and we’ll talk to you about your gardens, what’s going on in it, whether it’s fertilizer or not, IPM-related, you’re building systems, anything and everything. And we really just try to be there to support you increase the knowledge base and share what we’ve learned throughout the years.

 

Leland:  Like Matt said, we’re all growers ourselves. So I’ve been doing this every day for 10 to 12 years now, I grew up in greenhouses. My parents were [inaudible 27:11] growers. And yeah, the passion goes for the plant and what we’re doing and yeah. It’s just nice to wake up every day and be able to help everybody. You know, that’s what we live for, for sure. We’re all very, very happy with what we do. And we got your back 100%. It’s pretty much why we wanted to do this in the first place.

 

Chip: Yeah, you know, interesting, the customer service bleeds right over in to the ease of use, though, because you guys got some great like, b-charts.

 

Zach:  For me going, and going, going into that. But for us, Patrick and I that’s one thing that we really wanted to focus on, early on in our companies, was that the amount of customer service, it’s got to be unmatched out there in the industry. Like, not only on the store level, but the end user level, that’s where our main focus is. I mean, in reality, our main focus is making sure that the end user is getting the experience with the products that they deserve and they need, whether they buy it through the store or however they get it, it’s our responsibility to make sure that the end user has the best experience with the products.

 

Matt:  And part of the experience sometimes is the environment and a lot of other things that aren’t necessarily the product they’re buying. And so we’re trying to help them through that experience and make sure they get exactly what they expect.

 

Zach:  100%.

 

Jacob:  I’ve been to multiple grows with Leland on consultations, or just like, to give an overview of Front Row Ag, and he’s solved plenty of other problems right off the bat right  when he walked in. Not even trying to sell nutrients just like, you know, trying to actually help growers which is extremely valuable, especially.

 

Matt:  I’m sure Leland has that conversation regularly is, “Hey, you can use any fertilizer, really. But it’s, these are the things that you need to do right now that we’re seeing that we could be most impactful with and help you. And you know, Front Row is gonna help you get there as well. But here’s, here’s the thing. If we’re doing our jobs right, then the fertilizer’s a secondary conversation. Now that’s, that’s the goal is like, to not have to think about fertilizer anymore, and let’s see where else we can level up. And one of the advantages of being where we’re at is that we get to chat, it’s part of our job to chat with everybody else in the industry has got cool shit. So you know, we get to see the best LEDs, we get to see who makes the best soil shout out to Chip, and –

 

Chip:  Growers Soil, growerscoco.com. 

 

Matt:  And, yeah, we like to make sure that all of our friends who share the same kind of passion and vision that we do are, are all on the same team. And we’re all speaking the same language.

 

Zach:  You know, the technical support for us is, is the main key. We feel like we have one of the best products on the market. In order for that product to work properly, like Matt: said earlier, is that we have to have their proper environment. So one of the things that we’ve always focused on with the growers is being in these grows and in allowing the space, and being comfortable enough with our partners that we can point out the different forms of variables that they have that are causing adverse effects down the road, which is really important. That’s what we love to do, is we’re not ever trying to go into a grow and point out, you know, miscomings, or bad habits or whatever, but it’s the idea that if we can move past some of these small variables that are keeping them behind, the product’s gonna shine itself. So.

 

Chip:  Yeah, absolutely. There is a lot of emotion that goes into growing cannabis. And it’s always this like, dance. You have to play a little bit with people’s cultivation facilities, and maybe even their egos, because we all put a lot into what we do, and we’re proud of it. But the easy ones are when you go into a room, and you’re like, “Oh, well, you just got my soil, for instance, but I can see you have everything to adjust your environment, right. You’re just not doing it right. But hey, look up a VPD chart here, check this out, right? Follow this, right?” And like, you know, they change that, they use my soil, and they immediately do better, right? Now, it’s this whole combination of things that go on, but it’s like, what you guys bring to the table. Well, we all bring to the table, Jacob: brings to the table is like, it’s product support, right? We’re here to help you do whatever you’re doing better, right? You’re on, you got your own style. Everyone does, right? I’m sure you guys have people that use your nutrients not off the feed chart? Correct me, of course, right?

 

Zach:  That’s a, that’s a guideline anyways. It’s a, it’s a basic starting point anyways, right?

 

Matt:  A lot of time when people figured out something that works for them in terms of schedule, or strength, and we make that recommendation, I’ll just say, “Anything that has fertilizer in it, stop using it and use Front Row.” But coming to a similar EC or ppm, you know, start from there. And that might not be exactly what the feed chart always says either.

 

Chip:  Yeah, there’s a varying water quality throughout Oklahoma and the country for sure. So, you know, people have figured out, you know, ways to use fertilizers within their water quality limitations, right? And that’s one of the major things we see here in Oklahoma is a base, you know, a ppm of 400 all throughout the state. In some places, it’s 1200.

 

Matt:  Yeah, if people aren’t using RO, we do offer actually a hard water formulation.

 

Chip:  Yeah. Oh, absolutely. So, so many people in Oklahoma are using RO. I know, we’re all on it, we suggest people to get on. It helps up so much less, man, let’s talk about the RO formulation.

 

Matt:  Yeah, what about it?

 

Chip:  Yeah. Why should I mean, if I’m using RO, why should I use it?

 

Matt:  So yeah, there’s a, I guess there’s probably a misconception. And maybe a better way to explain why do we have a hard water formula, is out there in the world, one thing we help customers from a customer service standpoint is we take their water out of their well, the spicket, or even their RO system just to really verify it’s working and test it. And a lot of time in water, there’s ions or attributes of it that are really, really good, but forever and ever just like, walking into kind of a hydro store and buying one product for one solution, people have always been told that they have to use RO systems.

 

Chip:  And it makes zero.

 

Matt:  It makes zero. But there might be fertilizer or bicarbonates in the water that are unbelievably helpful. And then water out of a well or the ground also has good dissolved oxygen and good energy. Our RO filter is a sodium filter. So the moment you run that water through it, you strip all the energy out of it along with all the ions you just took out of it. So from there, you should condition the water, the RO water. Either circulate it to give it energy, use something to put energy back into it, and then also add dissolved oxygen back into that water. And then it’s good quality irrigation water. But RO water that’s not conditioned properly, time and time over, it can be worse than someone’s just general water.

 

Chip:  If you have these high ppms that we, people do in throughout Oklahoma and you’re not using RO, what’s a really good way to use your product? How, which one of these products of yours should I use, I use the hard water product?

 

Matt:  Well reach out to us first and the first thing we do is bottle your water up and then we we’ll tell you. We’ll say it’s either gonna be a combination of these products, or it’s all the hard water formulation or all the regular formulation.

 

Chip:  And people just call you guys up and ask this all the time?

 

Matt:  All day every day.

 

Chip:  Alright, alright everybody, put your joint down. And pull your phone out and I want you to like, log on to all of this information. Alright, let’s start with like, the best way to like, get in touch with you guys.

 

Leland:  Well, multiple ways. We have, you can go online and request it. You can call directly. You can find us on our Instagram pages. 

 

Chip:  What’s the,  let’s start with the Instagram. What’s the Instagram?

 

Zach:  It would be front row, so it’d be front underscore row underscore AG, on Instagram.

 

Chip:  And they can message you guys that way?

 

Zach:  You can get us there and then, in each territory, all of the team members have individual tags. So that they can also go there depending on which area you’re in. But initially, if you wanted to reach out direct, you can go right to the website, www.frontrow.com,  put your information in there and somebody can reach out pretty quick to you.

 

Matt:  But the Instagram and then this since [inaudible 35:14] are our distributor and partner and all that, they have, each of their handles are like, Soulstice or Farmer John, Soulstice Leland: or whatever. Leland:, what’s your handle?

 

Chip:  Soulstice.colorado.

 

Matt:  There you go.

 

Chip:  There you go. So, when people call up, when people message, they’re going to be talking to you guys, though?

 

Matt:  They talk to us.

 

Chip:  They talk to you, one of you three, may be somebody else, right?

 

Zach:  They’re talking directly to us, we don’t pass it on. Whether they’re asking questions about lights, or fertigation, or mediums or –

 

Matt: 18444206883.

 

Leland:  My bad. Sorry, that’s the call-in number. If you want to go on the website and go down to the customer service section and fill out an account, that’s always the easiest way. That’ll send an email straight to me, or one of my guys, or one of the rest of the team rather, sorry. And yeah, we’ll, we’ll definitely be reaching out ASAP.

 

Zach:  We are your guys. Team. 

 

Matt:  If you’re using RO water, it’s pretty straightforward. We recommend the regular formulation. And then we’ll talk to you about the, how to treat the RO and make sure you’re getting the most out of the money you’re spending on the, on the system. And process, if you’re going to try to use your well water, city water very quickly in the process, we have you bottle it up and we test it for you.

 

Chip:  That makes it great, man. And you know, this, this old school like, approach, you know, the vendors and the grow shops, we were all the original, quote unquote, “consultants.” And we were really product support people. But, but we were the people who were the front lines that helped people grow for years before there were consultants. And now so many – and I do have a consultant company, Greener Group Consulting. 

 

Matt:  You can check them out on Instagram.

 

Chip:  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have so many consultants now. But you can really cut to the chase. Most farmers, they can call people like you guys, right? They can call Cultivate Colorado, Cultivate OKC and literally get all the product support that many consultants charge them for. And all they have to do is buy the products, they just buy the fertilizer, they just buy some lights or something. Or you don’t even have to do that at the grow store, you can just come in and ask some questions and we’d love to chat with you, right? And, and that’s the customer support, the technical support that we all started with, and that we’re offering to you all.

 

Zach:  And what’s good about that as well is the majority of us have been doing as long as we have, we have connections with all of the other companies, whether they’re the reps or the owners of these lighting companies or fertigation companies, we’re able to get the answers that are needed no matter what. But usually, I mean, you guys at the end, especially at your store’s level, you guys got the answers.

 

Chip:  Yeah, well, we see so many people come in. I mean, how many people we got, come in at the Denver stores there every week? Hundreds of people, commercial growers. 

 

Zach:  A thousand.

 

Chip:  Yeah, a week, hundreds for sure. And that’s not counting all the deliveries or all the conversations with the growers that we have all over the country. And our ability to hear what everybody’s doing and how everybody’s progressing, I mean, it’s this great like, experiment on our part. Because Jacob gets to sell all these people you know, your product. And then we end up talking to them they’re like, “Oh, dude, this is going great man. Oh, I love Michigan. Oh man, I Maryland. Oh, it’s great. Oh man, in New York’s great. I love it. Man, we’re down in Florida.” But you know and it’s awesome that we get to see people from all over the country like, use the product and hear all this feedback on how they do it. And the learning curve on that is incredible. And chances are we’ve seen a grow that’s been super successful just like yours, just like the one you’re in right now that maybe you’re having problems with, or that maybe you think you’re crushing at, or maybe you’re legitimately crushing at it. Like, we have seen people just like, destroy the yields and quality in the very same type of room that you’re growing in. So if you want to give us a call it at Cultivate Colorado, Cultivate OKC, cultivateokc.com, stop in the store. Man, we’d love to chat with you about your grow room and help you achieve the best you absolutely can.

Indoor Grow Construction and Set Up (Freaux Pt. 2)

Indoor Grow Construction and Set Up (Freaux Pt. 2)

Indoor cannabis cultivation construction techniques

Building out an indoor grow is about numbers and design.

The amount of square footage in the space, the number of lights needed for full coverage, how many plants will fit and how it all needs to be placed to fit your needs; these are just a few factors that need to be figured out when building an indoor grow facility.

Designing and building an indoor grow room is no easy task. From room temperature to air flow, every little variable impacts how plants will grow in the space. Planning is key, but executing the vision isn’t always as simple as just following the blueprint.

Building Out an Indoor Grow

In Freaux’s case, when he was building his indoor grows for Jive Cannabis Co in Oklahoma he had limited space and wanted to take advantage. This meant packing more light into smaller rooms, which had to be adjusted over time.

Some extra duct work and ventilation helped solved the issue of too much heat caused by the lights, and there’s still new add-ons that Freaux is considering. Rolling tables and trellising are two that he mentions.

Chip on the other hand brought in an electrician to help set up his mom room. However the electrician was not experienced with indoor grow facilities for cannabis, and so the design was flawed.

After going back and fixing the problems himself, there are still some issues that Chip wants to address to make the room better.

In the Grow with Freaux

This week’s episode of The Real Dirt with Chip Baker takes place in Chip’s Mom House on the Oklahoma farm. For the confused, it’s not Chip’s actual mom‘s house, but the room where he keeps the mothers plants for cutting clones.

The two talk about their different construction techniques, the planning, implementation and adjustments that have to be made. From sourcing materials to setting up lighting, HVAC and more, Chip and Freaux dive into it all in this episode of The Real Dirt!

Transcript

Chip:  That’s right. You hear that sound, and you are in another growroom episode with Chip: Baker. This is The Real Dirt with Chip: Baker. And on today’s dirt, I once again have Freaux: from Jive Cannabis. And we’re just kind of like, hanging out in my new mother room, talking about cannabis construction techniques. We’re talking about HVAC and fans, and lighting, and how he built his room, and how I built my room and how maybe we might do it a little differently in the future. So, hey, if you’re interested in growing construction, I want you to just to sit back, roll up the largest joints you can and join us for another episode of The Real Dirt. 

 

Chip:  Alright, man. Here we are.

 

Freaux:  What’s going on, Chip? Thanks for having me on once again, man.

 

Chip:  Oh, I know man. It seems like forever since we had you here at the studios. I know the last time we were here, we just laughed and laughed.

 

Freaux:  Yeah, it’s always a good time with you, man. Can’t help but to laugh sometimes, yeah.

 

Chip:  Oh absolutely, man. We, I remember we sampled like, so much different weed. It was great. But here, we’re over here in my newly constructed multipurpose grow room. Right now, this is a big mother room. What do you think?

 

Freaux:  I think it looks awesome. How many lights you set in here?

 

Chip:  Man, I got 66 lights in here. You know, 66 is my lucky number. And we’ve overclocked this room a little bit, it’s about 110, 15% more light than we should be running in here. But we’re just dimming it down with the Trollmaster, you know the Trollmaster?

 

Freaux:  Yeah, Trollmaster’s a great product, we use that over at Jive.

 

Chip:  Yeah, I got mine at Cultivate OKC and you can get yours at cultivateokc.com, as a matter of fact. That’s what, I got mine there. Did you get yours there?

 

Freaux:  We sure did.

 

Chip:  You might have got yours from Cultivate Colorado, even.

 

Freaux:  Ah, no I think once, mine originally you might have got the ones…

 

Chip:  Cultivate OKC, that’s right. Alright, cool. Well, I love my Trollmaster and we’ve got these dimmed down to 50%. And that’s one of the cool things about it. These are their 1000 Watt phantom double-endeds, and we have them all linked up daisy chain with a data cable that all goes to the control unit, the Trollmaster control unit. And we have it dimmed down to 50%.

 

Freaux:  It looks great. What you got, that’s what, the unit structure looks like you’re looking to kind of, put it out there, is that what that is?

 

Chip:  Yeah, this is the, this is the way we like to build grow rooms. You know, with my Cultivate OKC and Cultivate Colorado, we do supply for all this equipment. But our other company, Greener Group, we build grow rooms or advise people on building grow rooms and this is the way I like to tell people to do it, right? It’s efficient, it’s effective. You do the math of the lights and you just mount the lights at one point on the ceiling. We basically build a unistrut frame, and on that unistrut frame we run some conduit, some electrical, but we also hang our lights from it too, right? And it makes it a real sturdy system, it adds a little bit of weight to the ruse, but and it is a little costly, but you can see how easy it is that just mounts right up to the unit’s drive.

 

Freaux:  No, it looks great. I mean, super pretty room here, Chip. I like the way you guys set up a lot. And you said what, these are going to be moms that are going to take clones off to go outside this year?

 

Chip:  Yeah it is. It’s early May, we’re taking clones of all of these right now. We have a bunch of clones already. And we also have a clone nursery in OKC, or my wife has a clone nursery there. So, these are all for the Oklahoma medical cannabis commercial market and for here at our farm.

 

Freaux:  Yeah, nice big healthy moms in here. The little you know, setup and schematics you got in through, the plant seem to really like it with the lights, fans, well-ducted AC. You got it nice and insulated. Electric work is really uniform and clean.

 

Chip:  I had the AC just kicked on.

 

Freaux:  It’s all quiet in there now, huh?

 

Chip:  Oh it is, man. Yeah, we turned all the fans off so we could have this episode here. But it, you can feel the light intensity, but the room’s holding temperature pretty good.

 

Freaux:  Yeah, I told him temperature great.

 

Chip:  We struggled with some of the AC, man. We got an AC guy, he came in here. I would never recommend him. He put all of this equipment in for us. It looked pretty, all the angles were almost right and straight, and then it just didn’t work.

 

Freaux:  Why was that?

 

Chip:  You know, they didn’t do the math properly on the ducting size. They had one of the units wired on heat when it should be on cool. So one unit was coming on heat, when everything was coming on cool, right?

 

Freaux:  This is redone now?

 

Chip:  Yeah. And then I got some other guys that actually worked with us over at Greener Group. They kind of redesigned the system they had here. They pulled in this main plenum right here, they pulled off these vents like, directly off the side, right? They calculated all of the airflow that was supposed to go through here, and the previous guy didn’t do any of that. Fortunately, I got the right HVACs and all of that was specked out. But my guy came in, he’s an engineer, he engineers HVAC stuff and you know, he just kind of did it for a favor, and retuned all this stuff in, retuned all my HVACs. And, man, it’s been, it’s been working flawlessly ever since then.

 

Freaux:  No, it looks beautiful. When you’re saying earlier, I was kind of like, “Well, it looks great here.” But you said the other guy came in and did this. But yeah, he did a, he did a great job.

 

Chip:  Yeah, we added in all of this soft ducting on here, right? Where we had to, and some back here and back here, where the other guy didn’t quite calculate for the steel ducting. But yeah man, testament in like getting a poor quality contractor, even though they can like talk a big game, they look good, and their truck looks clean, and they got a pin in their shirt does not mean that they really know what they’re doing.

 

Freaux:  Oh, I know. You know, unfortunately, that’s definitely not the case. But you do get a good one, though. You know, you got to, you got to hold on to him., because in a lot of those cases, you know, especially people who aren’t familiar, like you’d have experienced actually doing, you know, setting up a room, it’s just like a regular HVAC guy kind of winging it or whatnot. There is a specific, you know, equation as far as like, you know, your square footage, how many lights you know, all that that goes into it. So somebody who’s like, familiar with that, and can, you know, have the correct format and build out a grow room to where it needs to be and keep the environmental controls, you know, sound, that’s, you know, somebody you definitely want to hold on to. And there’s a lot of people out there that think they know, but, you know, their work proves otherwise.

 

Chip:  Yeah, absolutely. And many, many people that just knows, no experience and can cannabis and you know, they, they, they don’t really look at this for what it is, right? They either think they know better, or they want to observe the situation. Because, you know, oftentimes I find these people that come with this arrogance or entitlement of not being involved with cannabis.

 

Freaux:  Yeah. It seems like a lot of those type of guys too, always got a better way, you know, they can do this to prove that, but uh…

 

Chip:  Let’s jack this thing up, man. I’m gonna pull the catalytic converter off so we get a little bit more flow, you know what I’m saying?

 

Freaux:  Straight up.

 

Chip:  ,No man, my cousin here pass your smog no problem. 

 

Freaux:  That’s hilarious, man.

 

Chip:  True story. True story.

 

Freaux:  And that’s why I would say being, you know, the, sometimes experience and stuff like that, and just, you know, knowing it, you know, you know how it weighs, what somebody would think, I mean, it’s, you’re actually, you know, doing it yourself and have R&D to know what works and not. And it’s, you know, there’s always different ways to improve, but you know, you know, it’s all through trial and error, and, you know, yeah, to actually do it. So there’s a lot of good ideas out there people have, but, you know, to try it, you never know, and a lot of times people try new stuff, and it doesn’t work, you know?

 

Chip:  Yeah, right. And you know, we’re paying for it. So, I don’t want to have an experiment if I can, and, you know. Oh hey, speak about something that’s held the testament of time. Georgia Pine right here, aka Gilz Nilz, or Gilz Nilz, aka Georgia Pine. Man, this is from The Swamp Boys. I love this weed. It is just incredible growing, I love to smoke it. It’s got zero name. It doesn’t look like much of anything.

 

Freaux:  Makes great water hash, feels good too.

 

Chip:  I mean it’s just, it’s just greasy as I move my hands over it like oh, man, this stuff is great. I really love it.

 

Freaux:  It’s a happy girl right here, too.

 

Chip:  Yeah, we were talking about the fans earlier, man. And so I don’t have any horizontal fans here. I don’t have any wall mount fans, right? You pointed this out. And you asked me how what I thought about the way I had my fans going, and what’s going on here is we have all of our fans are blowing horizontally, right under the lights on the ceiling. You can check this video out or our Instagram out, on YouTube or on Instagram, you can see what we’re talking about. And it circulates the ai,  right? And that’s the principle we’re going. We’re trying to circulate all the cool air coming down from the HVAC. We’re trying to blow the hot air from the lights around the room and cause the air in a circular motion to start to move in. And there’s no direct fans on any of these buds, right?

 

Freaux:  No, I know. That’s the first thing I noticed when I was asking you about you know, a lot of people are kind of starting to move the fans up to the ceiling and move in there like that. I was wondering what you thought, but I can really see the difference from when it turned on to not. I mean it’s [inaudible 10:12] with it I actually haven’t like isolated fan on the wall, they’re kind of hitting the plants and stuff. You know, –

 

Chip:  Those oscillators take up so much room, man.

 

Freaux: Yeah, they do. And then they blow directly on your plants, which, you know, cause some you know, burns or you know, stuff like that on your plants. But uh, I really liked the way you got it set up like that. And I mean, I could definitely feel the airflow, all the plants were moving. It seemed like pretty much all the room was like, circulating everywhere it was to emulate just like that without having to like you sai,  take up space or you know, have a you know, fan blowing directly on your plants, especially those plants close to the wall and –

 

Chip:  It’s still loud.

 

Freaux:  Yeah. It’s definitely loud. You liking the way that’s working so far?

 

Chip:  Yeah, man. Oh, man, it works great. When you do the math though, itt only says it should have like, 12 fans in here, maybe even nine. But like, the reality is we have like, 18 or maybe 20.

 

Freaux:  Leave some of that, at least 15.

 

Chip:  Yeah, yeah, let’s count them. 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, I think there’s 26.

 

Freaux:  Yeah, that’s a lot. But it’s a –

 

Chip:  1, 2, 1, 2, 3 I can’t count man. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 30, 40, 50, 60. Okay, well, that time I got 19.

 

Freaux:  How much you got?

 

Chip:  I got 19, man. 

 

Freaux:  That looks about right. I’ll take your word on that right there.

 

Chip:  Yeah, well, we threw a couple random ones in here, so the math doesn’t quite work out. We got six over here., we got three in the middle, and then we’ve got eight over here. There, there it is. 19.

 

Freaux:  I like that set up a lot. I was kind of looking into you know, it seems like I was saying earlier a lot of people switch into the low end air with the fans up you know, up top. I’m gonna probably give it a whirl myself, see how I work it out and you know, trying in our room see how it does, but it seems top be working great for you, Chip.

 

Chip:  Yeah, man. We’ve been doing it for years, we build rooms this way for Greener Group all the time and for other people. And you know, if you’re, if you’re building out a new room, it really does help in your square footage. I really don’t like the oscillating fans, just one more thing that’s gonna move that’s gonna break, or you just got to pay a million bucks for the oscillating playing fans there’s just no easy way around it. But you know, in the hydroponic industry you know, I mean, I’m guilty of this. Cultivate Colorado, Cultivate OKC like and you know, our distributors have been selling us these fans we you know, have been promoting them. They’re inexpensive fans but they’re just not that great. And people come in and demand an inexpensive fan and that’s what they’re going to get is a wall fan that might not have the best performance, right? You pay a little bit more for these you know, steel 18-inch you know, hanging fans and you know – I won’t replace these.

 

Freaux:  Yeah. It seems like it pushes more air you know, especially up top like that. Definitely more powerful. Yeah,

 

Chip:  Absolutely. So when you were building your recent room here, like, what were some of the things that surprised you? That like, ideas you had about the way you were going to build it and in the way that it ended out.

 

Freaux:  Some stuff that was like, surprising? Um, you know, honestly when we first set up the new rooms that we built out in the back building, the one that you came over and toured that one time, you know, we had it set up to try to like work towards the room. Because we had like, limited space so we wanted to try to make as many rooms as we could or whatnot. So in a sense, we kind of had an overlit room, but the way it was like set out. But then we tried to put some you know science behind it check in you know, the lumens or whatnot, and we kind of had to go back and you know, set up the rows a little bit better. Have, it doesn’t look as like, crisp but it’s like, better for the room as far as like, square footage and having a good light spread over the canopy. I would say also to which I had to position some you know ductwork and some of our, our original rooms that we started with or whatnot. You know, added a quite a bit of ductwork to try to help with some like, hotspots were occurring and some like microclimates. You know, when we, you know, added that type of airflow to it, it was able to kind of mitigate a lot of those issues, but I think it’s one of the things really any grower, you know, different techniques come out, they see a buddy that’s doing something different. I think it’s always good to try to improve on whatever you can or whatnot. I know some stuff that we’re kind of looking into at Jive, we’re looking into, you know, going into maybe doing some like table and trellises instead of doing some stake-end and maybe even looking into –

 

Chip:  Oh yeah man, I’m, wait, I’ve got all the, all the tables just came in for this room. This room is  may – is gonna well, we got some construction and I got some stuff to clean up after our bill and we’ll go into that in a minute, but we’re gonna put tables throughout this whole thing.

 

Freaux:  That’s gonna look super crisp when you get those tables.

 

Chip:  Yeah, you know, one of the things I talked to people about putting the grow room together and you, we just talked about the things that didn’t quite work out, is you need to plan for that in your construction, right? You can get competent people, people can think about things but like, you know, unless like, every room is a package and they never are. People want to use different controllers, electricians use different equipment, I only use Square D, right? Like, you know, like stuff like that. And I actually I do, I only Square D.  People use different controllers like, it all ends up being different. So this room specifically, you can see all of my thermostats, the electrician thought it was it was good to put them all in one spot, right? Right. So all my, all my thermostats for the room, the dehumidifier, the Dehumidistat, all of them they’re, all five thermostats –

 

Freaux:  It’s all of your sensor here?

 

Chip:  Yeah, that’s for all sensor.

 

Freaux:  Oh, my god.

 

Chip:  Right. Right. So, uh, you know, I’m gonna have to pull all those out. And I’m gonna place them on each one of the corners, basically. And then just one in the middle.

 

Freaux:  Yeah.

 

Chip:  I’ll put them in on two stages, at least then. Right? So that way, two of them will come on, and three of them will come on, right?

 

Freaux:  That sounds like a good setup right there. 

 

Chip:  Right, right. But that’s not the way it’s set up right now. But if I had come in here, go, go, go, go, go put the tables in. Go, go, go, go, go go. You know, I would have. But because the HVAC didn’t work right?

 

Freaux:  Yeah. 

 

Chip:  Right off the bat.

 

Freaux:  Yeah.

 

Chip:  Right? And then, and then, and now I’ve been growing in here for a little bit because this is just a mom room. And now I’m like, “Okay, I need to change,” and this didn’t work out that well for me and I’m able to like dial it in.

 

Freaux:  Yeah, I mean, that’s the thing about always kind of improving your techniques and dialling it in and you know, any way you can, any, any way you can improve in that you want to you know, try to improve from harvest to harvest, you know. You definitely put a you know, a lot of time and effort in you know, to grow in it and you want to be able to have the right tools to make you succeed. If there’s no better stuff you can do, you always want to improve it, you know, the best you can you know?

 

Chip:  Hey guys, just a quick break to tell you about Cultivate OKC, Cultivate Colorado. You know, I got into the hydroponic supply business in 2009. I had wanted to open up a retail hydroponic store for years and I was already making potting soil at that point, maybe some fertilizers and some other stuff I was into. You know, I hadn’t opened up a retail shop and I got this opportunity to open one up in California. Right as I was fixing open up down in Riverside, Colorado came along. Ended up being better, bigger opportunity, opened up our Colorado stores and you know, man it’s just, we’ve been off to the races ever since. Now we’re in Colorado and in Oklahoma, we ship all over the country and even the world, man. It’s amazing. The people that call us contact us that needs, that need some, some, some equipment to grow their fine cannabis with. So if you need any help, any equipment, if you want to come to a great grow store where people don’t judge you, we’re not clique-oriented, we’re just there to help you grow. Man, come see us at Cultivate. Cultivate Colorado, we’re on exit 206 I-25. We’re also on the Stapleton Monaco exit there on I-70. And down in Oklahoma City, our newest store and man, probably our nicest showroom right now, is we’re right on the corner of 10th in Meridian. So come check us out 1101 North Meridian. Yeah, man. Got any questions about growing, no matter if you’re big or small. Just come on in. We’ll be glad to chat with you. Hey, guys, I know everyone who’s listening, we all love The Real Dirt. I mean, I love The Real Dirt. But you know what I love even more than The Real Dirt is actually growing in dirt. That’s right, Growers High Porosity Coco Formula, that’s my potting soil. Man. I’ve gone through so much trouble and research to build the cleanest, most effective potting soil for growing cannabis. Man, we built all this stuff inside. I break all the pallets, all the raw materials down on, on the morning. I push it through our machine, we use a series of conveyor belts, there’s no cross contamination, everything’s machine-mixed. It’s all made and mixed by volume. It goes directly into the bag. By the end of the day, everything that we started at the start of the day, all the raw materials, they’ve turned into bagged product that’s all stored inside. Now that the importance of this is many, many other, every other potting soil company, they don’t do it like that. Here’s how they do it. They take their raw materials, whether it’s coco, peat, perlite, forest, pumice, compost, sand, whatever they got, and they make a huge pile of it outside with big industrial equipment. They use tons of diesel to do this, tons of diesel fuel on the grinders, on the screeners, on the loaders. And they lead these huge piles out that’s just like a petri dish for cross contamination from weeds, seeds, bugs, whatever, whatever is capable of living in it. And it does and it will, and then they take these piles and they bring them into another facility that’s probably also not indoors, very few of them are, they’re usually covered tin sheds or something like that. And they bag up the potting soil, they wrap it up, pile it up, clean it off nice and pretty. And then when it gets shipped to you, you think it’s this great product, but in reality, it’s just like some dirt on the ground that people have shoveled up and put it in a nice plastic bag. And the potential for it to be full with everything from root aphids, to fungus gnats, to contaminants. It’s just, it’s mind boggling actually, at how bad it could be, and it’s really not that bad, comparatively. But our product is so clean, we go through so much trouble from the RO water to the clean cement, to the way that we move all this product around with conveyor belts instead of using big loaders. I mean, I’ve been making potting soil most of my adult life and I’m now using 1/10 of the petroleum products to make this potting soil. 1/10. And that’s almost all in diesel fuel, all in propane with forklifts, because of the way that we’ve situated our plan and you know, made this really great, environmentally friendly weed-bug-seed-free product. So, check it out man. growerscoco.com. Hop on your computer right now. Go to growerscoco.com. Check out our website. If we’re not in your community, ask your local grow store, he can get it in. If you’re in Colorado or in Oklahoma man, come to some Cultivates and we definitely got it. Thanks guys. And let’s get back to the episode.

 

Chip:  You know, I was really going for function over fashion in this room. It’s a little, there’s a little, there’s a little ugly spots here or there to it, but it’s going to be a see of bud in here soon enough when we turn this to like, an indoor room in the future. Where you know, the math I believe is we’ll put tables in here and you know, then like, a thousand plants or something. And should get two and a half ounces of plant is kind of I think the goal with still like, not packed in or still be able to walk around.

 

Freaux:  That sounds good. I mean, you could set up right there. What uh, what kind of tables you going with?

 

Chip:  You know, I believe I ended up with the the hawthornes slash botanic care tray tables. Yep. The rolling benches. 

 

Freaux:  Nice. Have you used those before?

 

Chip:  Yeah, we’ve got those. And we have the hydro farms. I actually liked the hydro farms better. But there was a supply issue, because right now we’re in an international supply issue for all products, right? And cannabis products are not you know, any different.

 

Freaux:  Yeah, you’re really starting to feel that now. A lot of people are out of stuff, price is up. Yeah, man, it’s been kind of hard to get like, raw supplies, especially if you are either building out or if you need, you know, just normal stuff, you know? They’re, you know, fertilizer, all that stuff seems to be, you know, kinda on, I guess, high demand and also too, the supply chain’s kind of been, you know, down a little bit or whatnot.

 

Chip:  Man, it’s a, no, there’s an international shortage, man. All of India has a bunch of containers and they’ve been shut down over COVID. China, Hong Kong, they’ve been shut down a bunch, man. They’ve got less containers on the market for all the rest of the product, right? All of our manufacturers were in a slight downturn slightly before COVID. And everybody started smoking tons a week, because they were unemployed and staying home, and they could smoke more weed. Right,? Right? So our industry all went and now like, more people want bags of soil. More people want, right? More people, more people. So yeah, that’s good though. It’s all moving. forward so fast, but like, you know, we all want to expand, but we can’t because we can’t get unistrut or we can’t get – this literally just happened to me –  I couldn’t get to 2 by 6 steel framing or you know, ACs are 16 weeks out if you want to do construction right now. 

 

Freaux:  That’s crazy.

 

Chip:  So it’s hard all over if you’re building the grow room currently, you know, you should really plan everything way ahead of time, it’s not going to work any way like it, it normally should.

 

Freaux:  Yeah, you got to plan in proper because, you know, stuff is so you know, behind now and going up in price and just not, you know, not readily available. But you are right, definitely if you are planning something you know, in the near future, you know, definitely at least get your material list. And, you know, make sure it can get sourced or whatnot, because it is definitely hard to find, you know, raw materials right now.

 

Chip:  Yeah, man. The, my biggest complaint about building this room, though, was that I couldn’t build a bigger one.

 

Freaux:  Man, that’s always, that’s always the number one problem, huh?

 

Chip:  So man, what would you, what do you want to do on your next room? What are you gonna do next time?

 

Freaux:  You know, honestly, if you know, on the next room or next setup, I would say I would probably, you know, start fresh with tables, you know, move over to trellis. I would probably like to do some sort of fan setup, like you got. Like, kind of, you know, go away from the oscillating you know, the oscillating fans kind of do the fans set up like you got going on right now. And then, I know I’d probably say you know, do some duct work kind of similar this. You know, something that’s going to have it where, you know, the, where it can, you know, not have a bunch of like, microclimates and hotspots. And then I don’t know, I you know, look at like different products that are out there now. Like, could be you know, like DPS panels, does that have advantages, you know? Any kind of, you know, like, you know, foam in an installation that could help out with keeping the climates you know, dialed in. And then any kind of like, you know, stuff like Trollmasters, like maybe going to a pro or getting set up on, you know, water automation, doing stuff like that, you know, probably different stuff like that. If you’re gonna do something else like that.

 

Chip:  Yeah, the Trollmaster Pro’s definitely something I’d like, but no, man, the internet’s not great out here.

 

Freaux:  Yeah, that is something you got to, if your internet’s not working, that’s not working, you know?

 

Chip:  What about LED vertical?

 

Freaux:  Yeah, that’s something you know, LED’s something I would like to, you know, try out a room or something like that, at some point. I’ve been hearing even of recently, a lot of people are starting to switch over. People who are, you know, been [inaudible 27:48] or whatnot. And, you know, always regretted the switch. I feel like a lot of people are making it and having like, good results would be good to try to, you know, give that a run ,see how that goes. And then you’re talking about one vertical like, stacking up or whatnot?

 

Chip:  Yeah, yeah, yeah, vertical stacks.

 

Freaux:  I know. That’s something that we’re kind of, you know, doing that at Jive right now. One of our veg rooms, we have a vertical stacked LEDs at the bottom and CMH is up top. You know, it definitely makes more room. You can have more, you know, put more plants on there. Even if it’s just for your one gallons or whatnot, free up some space. I know there’s a lot of facilities out, there’s a facility I’ve heard about out here where they have I want to say like, 100 lights at the top and the bottom. I would just like to see it myself, how like, a workflow a day of that would go because you know, setting that up in like, you know –

 

Chip:  It’s high labor. It’s absolutely high labor. You know, there’s advantages to it. There’s disadvantages to it, that’s for sure. You’re going to grow twice as much or three times as much weed but it’s going to take that much more effort to do that as well, right? It’s not just like growing three times more weed horizontally. It’s like that much more difficult because now it’s on ladders.

 

Freaux:  Yeah, that’s understandable.

 

Chip:  Right, right. But it can be done and the LEDs grow great weed, and it’s just the expense. And I look forward, my next, my next bill.

 

Freaux:  There’s always a next one, huh?

 

Chip:  My next bill.

 

Freaux:  Straight up, huh. That’s funny.

 

Chip:  Yeah, man. So let’s check out this MAC, man. Check out this Mac 1, this Mac 1. Grows funky, huh? Do you know this plant?

 

Freaux:  I don’t. I’ve never actually grown it. I know it’s been really popular. The weed I see its from, it’s been amazing.

 

Chip:  It can be pretty good. It didn’t fill out so much, but it’s really stony and it smells incredible.

 

Freaux:  No, definitely. It’s got a nice look to it, too. I’ve never actually seen it like, in garden, in person, but a definitely beautiful looking plant. Looks super happy right there too.

 

Chip:  Yeah, it’s got a weird growth pattern, man. It’s real slow, it’s real slow until, until it’s not. 

 

Freaux:  Does it, does it seem to catch up with everything else or is it kind of –

 

Chip:  Okay, hey, check it out. Those are, those are Cookies and Cream, right? Those plants over there. And these are the Mac 1s, these were started you know the same time as those.

 

Freaux:  Were those smaller when they –

 

Chip:  No, it was all the same size, all the same cutting, all the same cutting day, right? All of this came out on the same cut. Well okay actually, that’s not true. This stuff in the middle, this all came out on a week later cutting day. But everything else, all these taller plants all on this side, that was all the same day, right? So but the Mac, it grew so slow initially.

 

Freaux:  It really exploded then, because this –

 

Chip:  Now it’s bigger.

 

Freaux:  It’s like probably one of the taller plants in the room, honestly. Besides this one in the corner over here on the left.

 

Chip:  Yeah. You just got to baby it, you got to, you got to watch the water, you got to, you got to really work on that initial transplant, and root bound it out. And then transplant it again, and root bound it out. And like, and now it’s happy.

 

Freaux:  Definitely look good. How’d she, how’d she do outdoor?

 

Chip:  It did great, man. I’m really, we’re gonna make a bunch of crosses of it this year. You know, we’ve got 28 different flavors so far we’ve planted. And then we’ve got about seven returning, seven returning ones. Seven or five. We’ve got, we’ve got Granddaddy Dawg, we’ve got Purple Punch, don’t hate on me. We got Train Wreck. I’ve got Georgia Pine, we’ve got Mac 1. And then we’ve got Cookies and Cream.

 

Freaux:  Nice little lineup right there.

 

Chip:  Yeah, I got a couple other Melonades in here someplace and –

 

Freaux:  You’re gonna rerun like, Sherb Dosis or any of that?

 

Chip:  Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. We’re going to run a bunch of Sherbadosidos. We’re going to run a bunch of Lemon G 13 Dosidos. I’m going to do some, oh man, the list is epic. I got a ton of Hawaiian strains. I figured like, “Hey, where is it humid but they grow dank weed? Oh, Hawaii!” So I call up my Hawaiian homies. And they were like, “Oh, hey, I live in Oklahoma now.”

 

Freaux:  Straight up. Seemed like everybody’s out here now, huh?

 

Chip:  Yeah, totally. 

 

Freaux:  Hawaii had some good strains. I’ve always had some pretty good Hawaiian weed, man.

 

Chip:  Oh man. I got, I got, I traded like, all of the originals, man. The Molokai Frost, the Puna, the Tar, the [inaudible 32:19]. I got a bunch of originals and then those crossed, right? And then I’ve got also like some other modern like, Dutch strains crossed with local strains as well. 

 

Freaux:  That is badass.

 

Chip:  Yeah, yeah, we got about 12 or 13 of those. We went heavy on R&D on that.

 

Freaux:  So that’s awesome. I’m interested to see what those look like when they’re done.

 

Chip:  And then I think we have every something out,  some amount out of the whole Archive flat, Archive catalog, probably like 80 or 100 of almost everything that he’s produced the past. I’ve been collecting them for the past couple of years and we’re putting all that out.

 

Freaux:  That’s awesome.

 

Chip:  Yeah, yeah.

 

Freaux:  Can’t wait to see those.

 

Chip:  And then man, my buddy Shaw up at 707 Seeds, we got, we’ve got his whole collection of seeds going to probably you know, I said 28, that number’s nowhere right. Because I’m calculating like,  42 or something inside my head now. We’ve got like all of the NorCal clones, all of the flavors all crossed with this really hardy Kush cleaner that’s a proven outdoor strain, a great indoor strain. Wash is great, we’ve got it crossed with with pretty much everything.

 

Freaux:  Sounds like y’all have been busy, huh?

 

Chip:  We’re gonna be. We just popped all these, you have to come back later on. But mass pheno hunt, we’re like, I got a cell culture lab we’re building over here in the other building this year. And so by the fall time, that’s all going to be ready and we’re gonna have our online lab here where we’ll be able to like, test like, nuggets as we go, plants as we go. And we’re like, “Okay, that’s the one, that’s the one.”

 

Freaux:  Hey, that’s badass. Can’t wait to see that in action.

 

Chip:  Yeah. No doubt, man. I’ll tell you, you know my biggest problem with it all here, man, I really need some good solid people to work.

 

Freaux:  I hear you on that.

 

Chip:  We should start an employment agency. Oh hey, if you want a job in the cannabis industry but you got to like, be able to like one, be work well with others. Two, work hard all day. Three, have like, zero ego and only admiration for the plant. Man, I think you could probably get a job with either one of us right now, right?

 

Freaux:  Easily.

 

Chip:  Easily. Or other people here in Oklahoma. Call us first.

 

Freaux:  Yeah, definitely call us first. But if you have all those attributes, definitely.

 

Chip:  Yeah, absolutely man. Like, you know, you got to be able to pick up 50 pounds and do it all day in the sun, right? You got to be able to like stand under like 60,000 watts., 100,000 watts of light.

 

Freaux:  And also too you know, no to, you can’t really have like, just kind of a normal workday. You got to be on the garden time, you know? Like, it’s not not your traditional work day and it kind of got to work around the plants, you know?

 

Chip:  Yes, sometimes it’s like, oh, middle of the day, we had to shut down for this reason. If you want the hours, you can come back later.

 

Freaux:  Yeah, definitely, huh?

 

Chip:  Right, right. Or for me, outdoor like, we do a lot of work here. But you know, greenhouses, we grow up until December and process up until March this year. But there were some weeks we’re like, “Oh, what are we going to do?” And, you know, we had to find some stuff. But now this time of year, I told the guys, “Work as late as you want.”

 

Freaux:  Nice, yeah, straight up. But it seems like you said, there’s those times where there’s the down period. You can always find stuff to do. I mean, any one of us could find some for somebody to do, there’s always work to do. But uh, yeah, I mean, it’s definitely the busy season. I’m the same way. I mean, we got you know, we’ll have our, you know, slow week or so here and there. And then it just seems like you don’t have enough people some weeks, you know? Just depending on where you’re at in the cycle, you know?

 

Chip:  Well, you know, I saw just last week on one of the major news networks that 300,000 people are now employed in the cannabis industry throughout the US. Can you believe that, man?

 

Freaux:  That’s incredible. I  love hearing those type of numbers, you know? 

 

Chip:  300,000 people.

 

Freaux:  I hope it just continues to rise on top of that, you know?

 

Chip:  Oh man, that’s like 1% of the population or something, right? With the math. Can I, hey, can I get a statistics check on that? Here. We’re gonna, we’ll be back with you here in a minute. But no, seriously, if you want a job, look us up. Look me up first. It’s my show, bro. I’m just you know, I’m sorry.

 

Freaux:  I can’t argue with you on that.

 

Chip:  Yeah you know, we’re looking for experienced cannabis people that either live in Oklahoma or who are interested in moving here. We pay an honest wage for an honest day’s work. You know, both of us are good people and we’re looking for all types of, all types of people. You can, you can drop by  yourresume for Freaux: or for Chip: at thereal dirt.com. You can look on the website, and it’ll be a little thing someplace. It’ll say like, :resume.” Like, point that and like, you can drop your resume in.

 

Freaux:  Hey, that sounds like a plan right there.

 

Chip:  It could say like, “help” on it. It could say like, “employment opportunities.”

 

Freaux:  You know, word to the wise too, it’d probably  be the funnest job you ever had, huh?

 

Chip:  Dude.

 

Freaux:  Especially if you like weed. There’s nothing better than working around weed plants all day.

 

Chip:  Yeah, yeah, you don’t get to smoke weed all day, but you definitely get to play with weed all day, right?

 

Freaux:  Yeah, straight up.

 

Chip:  Right right. Yeah, man it’s been another fabulous episode here on The Real Dirt. It’s almost like The Real Dirt with Freaux. That’s how I should start saying it. Like, this guy ’cause like, you know, we know I’m The Real Dirt. But it’s like, it’s The Real Dirt with… Here’s The Real Dirt. In today’s real dirt, we’re with Freaux. I love it. I love it. Alright, here I’m gonna start over. Right, it’s The Real Dirt. This is another episode of The Real Dirt. My name is Chip: and this real dirt, we’re with Freaux. It’s The Real Dirt with Freaux. I’m gonna have to work on that.

 

Freaux:  I like the way that sounded so far. I liked the start.

 

Chip:  I know I had last episode, I had a song, right?

 

Freaux:  That song was awesome, man.

 

Chip:  You had some great weed there, man. I hope you brought some good weed this time, man.

 

Freaux:  Always. I definitely got a backpack full for you, Chip.

 

Chip:  Well, we’ll have to, we’ll have to go up into the private residence after this and check it out. So thanks for joining us on The Real Dirt. You can download this episode and others at therealdirt.com. Please subscribe on iTunes or Spotify or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. And make sure Real Dirt is one of those. And hey. also check me out on YouTube. I just started a Real Dirt YouTube channel over there. We’ve got about 500 or 1000 followers, and you too could be one. If you’re not now please, please, please please, please join my YouTube channel, please. Real Dirt.

The Real Dirt on Indoor vs Greenhouse Cannabis [Freaux Pt. 1]

The Real Dirt on Indoor vs Greenhouse Cannabis [Freaux Pt. 1]

indoor vs greenhouse cannabis cultivation podcast

The day indoor cannabis cultivation was invented, it has been said that immediately a man came running over the hill top to argue whether it was better than greenhouse cultivation. Not really.

But it’s a funny way to say that the arguments about indoor vs greenhouse cultivation have been around since indoor cultivation was invented. There will always be the traditional growers who will only grow in outdoor sunlight, and others who have converted to strictly indoor. Then there’s those in the middle who may use a greenhouse, light deprivation or some combination of indoor and outdoor.

Any cultivation method has its pros and cons, so it’s difficult to argue that one method is the best above all others. Most would probably agree that indoor cultivation would be the best if it wasn’t for the price associated with set up and maintenance. Most would also agree that when it comes to cost, growing outdoors will always have the lowest overhead.

Freaux started Jive Cannabis Co in Oklahoma to produce boutique, small batch, selectively bred cannabis strains that are constantly on rotation. Jive has quickly become one of the most sought after flower and extract in the state, and it’s because of Freaux’s extensive indoor cultivation experience.

Chip on the other hand has been a traditional outdoor and greenhouse grower, with plenty of experience in an indoor setting as well. But currently he is growing outdoor, greenhouse and indoor in Oklahoma.

With the two touting their recent harvests from the past season, Freaux and Chip have a lot to compare, contrast and learn about each other’s grow methods, genetic sourcing and more. Which is why this episode is all about just that!

This episode of The Real Dirt with Chip Baker is all about the great indoor vs greenhouse debate. Coming from different cultivation backgrounds Chip and Freaux have plenty of differences in how the cultivate cannabis, indoor and outdoor. Yet both grow some fine cannabis for their respective methods.

It’s not a competition, there is no winner. Just a couple growers sharing some of their secrets for growing some high quality cannabis!

Transcript

Chip:  This is Chip: with The Real Dirt podcast. Welcome to another episode of The Real Dirt. Today, I have one of my favorite guests in Oklahoma. He’s a surprise guest, but he’s been here several times before. You can’t see him through the radio but, but maybe you can hear his voice skip. Mr. Surprise Guest, say a few words to see if our audience can, can pick up on, on who you are.

 

Freux:  Chip:, it’s always a pleasure to come out here.

 

Chip:  It’s Freux, it’s Freux from, its Freux, it’s Freux from Jive. He’s here today. I know everybody guessed that immediately. Good times, good times. Sorry, just sorry to step on you. I was just having a good time with the audience there myself.

 

Freux:  Oh, you’re more than good.

 

Chip:  I’m getting into my podcast character.

 

Freux:  It is a beautiful day out here. Always, always good to come out here. It feels like every time I come out here, there’s just more and more stuff going on, you know?

 

Chip:  I know, man. This place is really great. You know, we’re sitting in our kitchen of our grow farm in Wellston, Oklahoma. Our dining room there’s these two huge windows looking to the north from the south, we get to see all the storms come in one way or the other.

 

Freux:  I mean, it looks beautiful out there. And the lake, everything’s blooming, everything’s green, weather is great, not too hot yet.

 

Chip:  The grass is high. Literally, I need to, I need a zero turn. Do you cut grass?

 

Freux:  Oh, I used to when I was younger. I haven’t lately. I kind hadd to outsource that now. Just not enough time in the day, you know?

 

Chip:  I enjoy the occasional grass cutting. We lost our grass cutter this year though. He literally passed away.

 

Freux:  Oh, I’m sorry.

 

Chip:  No, we’ll make light of it because he was a really light and fun guy. But man, he can cut grass for the shit. Sparkles, if you’re listening from the netherworld…

 

Freux:  That’s terrible, man. 

 

Chip:  Oh, I know. We love the man, we love the man. But yeah, he liked to like, leave. We’ve got, we have to cut like, 40 acres of grass out here for the cultivation, because that’s one of the ways we manage the IPM. But Kelly would like leave the same, like, not cut row over and over again. And it was, it was this pattern. It was just so amazing that you – he’s just grown up. He just passed you know, not several months ago. But you know his last cutting has just grown out. But you could see over the whole property these like, rows where he missed a strip of grass, right? For like, succession for year, you know after month, year after year. But you know, it’s always sad when you lose somebody but you know, you get to remember the fun times, you know for as long as we’re around. Yeah, so, enough serious talk here. Hey, man, this is the weed episode, Freux.

 

Freux:  Yeah.

 

Chip:  This is a podcast about cannabis, and about marijuana, and medical marijuana. And we’re gonna look at some, some weed. This is gonna be a verse. This is a verse, right? This is a greenhouse verse indoor. Smoke-off 2021.

 

Freux:  Sounds exciting right there.

 

Chip:  In one corner, we’ve got Jive and Freux weighing in at five nice jars. They’re the good kind too, the wide mouth jars.

 

Freux:  My favorite. When they’re not in stock, it’s never good.

 

Chip:  Yeah. And we’ve got Chip: weighing in the other corner. He’s got several piles of large Mylar bags stuffed full of weed.

 

Freux:  Making my pile look small, right? Taking up whole table right there.

 

Chip:  Right. So how are we going to play this game? You know, I think I should pick one of yours and you should pick one of mine.

 

Freux:  Let’s do that.

 

Chip:  Let’s pick and talk. You –

 

Freux:  You know, you kind of, before we got started you were showing me a couple bags. You know, the one that kind of stuck out and was that uh, that sherbadoe, that dosi, that’s what that was, right?

 

Chip:  Sherbet Dosido, yeah.

 

Freux:  I also liked that uh –

 

Chip:  This is, this is a photo op right here. I’m gonna pass this over. Right? Like this way. There we go. Here we go. Audience, I’m passing the weed over for the photo op. Yeah, there we go. Oh, it’s great. Great photo op. This is Sherbet Dosidoe. This is a Archive strain.

 

Freux:  Very familiar smell, I love the smell.

 

Chip:  Yeah, Fletcher’s a longtime friend of mine. I’m part of his you know, his research and development network. And that basically means he, many of his friends, he gives us seeds or gives us good bulk deals on seeds. We plan out genetics and you know, tell him what we think about it. Fletcher grows in just incredible seed, his quality of seed is incredible. Man all of this stuff, of this past, this is all experimental for him I guess we’ll call it. They’re all Dosidoe crosses they’re kind of just like everything. I don’t think any of this really hit the market, other than the moon bow. 

 

Freux:  Yeah.

 

Chip:  The Moonbow did hit the market.

 

Freux:  That’s been huge for the last couple of years.

 

Chip:  It has. But this Sherbet Dosi, Dosidoe. And I really love the name, Sherbet Dosi Dosidoe. Say it five times fast.

 

Freux:  Yeah, it looks great. I mean, anything from Archive is solid. And he’s one of my favorite breeders, I would say. You know at Jive, we run him pretty heavy.

 

Chip:  Oh yeah, we get your Thin Mints. What else do you, do you have Rude Boy?

 

Freux:  I don’t. I have like, Hazmat OG, Sunshine Lime. 

 

Chip:  Yeah, Sunshine Lime very popular with the dispensary customers.

 

Freux:  Mhm. We have Dosi, Dosi 22, we ran out some of the Dosi 22 F2s. That’s really good. 

 

Chip:  Right, right. Yeah, we just planted some of those as a matter of fact.

 

Freux:  Yeah?

 

Freux:  You’ll like those. I mean, amazing flavor, amazing flavor. Found a lot of good phenos, it’s obviously one of my favorite things smoking right now. The pheno we found not as much bag as feel as some of the weed out there. But as far as flavor and smoke, I mean it’s…

 

Chip:  Yeah.

 

Chip:  It’s good.

 

Freux:  It’s going on awesome. 

 

Chip:  Man, you know, Fletcher really hit it with Dosi. He it’s one that became you know, a craze throughout the US. A mad craze with all the youngsters.

 

Freux:  It’s been one of the highest strains the last seven years.

 

Chip:  Yeah, it’s hot. It is, it’s a great strain to grow. It is phenotypically similar, it’s a good stretcher all the crosses that comes with it just become phenomenal.

 

Freux:  Yeah, that male he use, whatever male he breeds with I mean anything that Dosi touches turns to gold.

 

Chip:  Yeah, he does a lot of male work. That’s why his seeds are so good. I mean, this is starting to sound like an info commercial. No, no, he does a really good job. We plant a lots and lots of seeds and the Archive seeds always pop the best, pop the quickest, grow the fastest, are the strongest. And mostly it’s because he really selects that male, right? He’s done tons of work just to select the male alone and most of the other, you know, seed makers out there, they don’t really do that. They just, they get a pop of male, they force a herm, right, of whatever. And then they start their line.

 

Freux:  That seems to become a practice and that’s why a lot of you know, seed packs you get out there are kind of watered down now, you know?

 

Chip:  Oh, man.

 

Freux:  Nobody puts the time and effort into it. There’s very few people out there and you know, most of guys now are dropping, you know, so many different varieties so quick. I mean, they can’t possibly be, you know, R&D and taking where it needs to go, you know?

 

Chip:  Right, unless you’ve been doing it for years and years.

 

Freux:  Or yeah, unlesss –

 

Chip:  But most haven’t.

 

Freux:  Correct.

 

Chip:  Hmm. Alright so, back to our game. So you’re rolling up the Sherbet Dosidoe, and I’m gonna roll one of yours here. What do you, what do you got here?

 

Freux:  So I tried to bring what I had on hand. I got some GMO times Sherb Crasher. I’ve got some brand new Dungeon Vault I’ve got some actually, Dolato from Fletch. It’s a lot of 41 times Moonbow cross. I got one of our classics, Grandpa’s Breath and then I brought you a little bit of a pheno hunt we just went through. Sugar babies, which I’m really excited about. It’s Dungeon Vault Genetics, Sugar Babies is Runts times Sugar Daddy. Sugar Daddy is Wedding Cake and Grandpa’s Breath. And a bunch of interesting phenos has come out of that. But I want to say, other than the, you’ve definitely seen the Hot Rod and the Grandpa’s Breath. This is everything new right here. Got three different phenos of the Sugar Babies and then Brandywine GMO, Sherb Crasher, and then Dolato.

 

Chip:  Man, I think I’m gonna go for that Dolato.

 

Freux:  Go ahead.

 

Chip:  Alright, Dolato. Yeah, we were talking about this earlier. Fletch has an incredible like, naming strategy. I asked him the other day if he had a, if he had a book of names, right? And he’s like, “Nah, man, I just come right up with it.” He didn’t talk like that, but you know.

 

Freux:  Seems like when he names stuff too, you kind of like know what’s in the lineage a little bit you know. He’s kind of able to pair those together where it’s not like you know, what is that? Yeah.

 

Chip:  Wow, man. That’s, oh.

 

Freux:  It’s pretty serious stuff right there.

 

Chip:  Smells like Purple. No, it’s actually it smells like OG, it’s very Purple. This is great weed. I’ve been looking for this weed. Purple OG, right?

 

Freux:  Pretty much.

 

Chip:  It’s got super strong OG smell, right? Not the like, not the, not the classic OG but OG, nonetheless. Heavy OG, right. It’s a bit – because it’s sweeter.

 

Freux:  It is.

 

Chip:  There’s a sweeter part to it, right?

 

Freux:  It’s got that sweet almost like, Z from the Moonbow or whatnot. You can kind of smell that underlying in there.

 

Chip:  Dude, this is great weed, man.

 

Freux:  I appreciate that.

 

Chip:  Oh yeah dude. This is great weed. And your trimmers have gotten much better?

 

Freux:  Oh our trimmers, yeah. They’ve definitely stepped their game up lately. 

 

Chip:  Right? You’re smiling over there. 

 

Freux:  Not that they don’t do a bad job but I think they’ve been really on par in the last couple months. That’s one thing we’ve been trying to dial into, you know? Can’t have good weed without a good trim, you know?

 

Chip:  I can, I can, I can smell [inaudible 10:34].

 

Freux:  It’s coming out there poppies.

 

Chip:  Coming out, you know. And as I break the bud open, it’s purple on the inside, it’s purple on the outside. It’s got these small green you know, leaves and you know, anytime you get that in cannabis where you’ve got this purple and then light green color like, it really just like, looks phenomenal.

 

Freux:  Yeah, it looks awesome the way it just kind of combines with it.

 

Chip:  Because a lot of times you can get the green,  the purple leaf, but you don’t get the purple buds.

 

Freux:  With natural buds that’s really –

 

Chip:  Or like the you know, you cut the purple off all the leaves and the trim and it’s, there’s nothing, nothing purple.

 

Freux:  Yeah. But that bud, everything’s purple in there everything, even in the middle edges.

 

Chip:  Everything’s purple. Have you done, have you washed it?

 

Freux:  I have not. But that is actually one that we are going to, we kind of you know, got on something at the shop where as we pheno hunt and kind of you know, go through strands, we’re trying to wash everything to see what happens with you know, especially with [inaudible 11:32] being so popular now. You know, you want to find something that makes sense where you can you know, dedicate some space to washing, but we’re pretty much gonna run everything. You know, as we run it through the cycle to pick out what we want. We are going to you know, do the for R&D and wash them, see how that goes as well.

 

Chip:  Man, this just smells phenomenal. 

 

Freux:  But when it’s lineage I think you know, some strands that probably would wash well.

 

Chip:  Oh, that was, that was me. That was Kevin Colver from Cutting Edge.

 

Freux:  Nice.

 

Chip:  Speak of the devil.

 

Freux:  Speaking of the devil, I’m literally rolling on a Cutting Edge tray as we speak.

 

Chip:  Yeah, right, right.

 

Freux:  Shoutout John, huh?

 

Chip:  Yeah dude. Man, we have used John’s products and do tons of business with John, with Cutting Edge. If any growers out there are interested in you know, really like, stepping up the quality of the inputs that they put into their cannabis, to be enable to like dial in their own recipe like, Cutting Edge is the product to do it. It’s a base product of three parts. So you can like follow his directions, which are incredible. Or you can make your own, right?

 

Freux:  If you follow straight what’s on the on the jar bottle, you’re gonna get a very good end result, you know, even without tweaking it.

 

Chip:  Yeah, absolutely.

 

Freux:  Dialing into what you’re trying to accomplish.

 

Chip:  For the commercial grower, it’s a three part but it really is effective, because you can boost, you buy your three parts, you boost up on your grow and your micro during the vege. And then you know, when it’s just bloom, you don’t use so much of the grow, a little bit in the transitional formula, but then it’s just bloom and micro, right? And it’s like 8 micro 15 bloom, but you know, many people buy bloom enhancers. Well, you just add more bloom with Cutting Edge, right? And so you go 20 mLs to the gallon. And it is just like any other bloom enhancer on the market, but you can control the dose, right? It’s a customized it’s, it’s customized for you to make your own formulas, right? And do you use the supplements as well?

 

Freux:  I do. We use quite a bit of Cutting Edge. I mean, we use you know the Sugary, we use Bulletproof. I’m trying to think of what else we use like that Mag Amp. We use quite a few of his additives as well, especially the Uncle John, Uncle John blend.

 

Chip:  I love the Mag Amp. I love the Uncle John’s blend. Alright, so we’re gonna light these hooters up at the same time. Mmm. Well, hands down, hands down. You got the flavor on this over here for sure.

 

Freux:  It doesn’t really know got the flavor.

 

Chip:  It’s got the flavor, man. That’s one thing I’m really like lacking on our weed here is we haven’t really been able to get the flavor. We get the look in the greenhouse, but not this superior flavor, right? Part of it is you just can’t let it go till it’s actually done, right?You know, just a few greenhouses you can actually do that. And we’re at scale here such a large amount, right? With such a small workpool, it’s also difficult, right? To pick plants on time and right?

 

Freux:  Yeah no I hear you, man. This Sherbert Dosidoe man though, it’s got good flavor, man. I mean, you can definitely taste the Dosi, you can taste the Sherb in there, little bit of creaminess. You could definitely taste the Dosi I feel like, the Dosi is shining through in the taste.

 

Chip:  Yeah.

 

Freux:  Yeah, like the smell, you know, kind of maybe lead a little harder to like the Sherbert side. I kind of knew that creamy, you know, kind of like Sherbert-y, that type of smell but uh, but taste is very Dosi 4 with a little kind of Sherb on the back end or whatnot.

 

Chip:  You know, we planted it out maybe 2000 seeds of these and they all grew Dosi-like, right?

 

Freux:  The last time I was out here that was my, by far my favorite house.

 

Chip:  Oh yeah, yeah, that’s right. That’s right.

 

Freux:  Good color, got a good look, good smell.

 

Chip:  I think I even picked out the buds that you were like, “Oh, I like that plant, that plant. But I think I smoked those.”

 

Freux:  That figures, huh. What do you want to say to this again?

 

Chip:  Man the, yeah this Dolato, yeah, man this is uh, looks a lot better than the taste. It’s really harsh. I can’t smoke anymore of this. You should probably just leave that jar here with me.

 

Freux:  Oh yeah, huh?

 

Chip:  You know I really like tasting coffee – you ain’t got the COVID do you?

 

Freux:  Oh no. 

 

Chip:  Are you on the vax, man? You oka, did you check his warrant? I mean not warrant, his passport, passport in here. Oh okay, he came through processing. Now this is, this is really good man. Let me take another hit and shut up. I meaan I really, I really enjoy having a cup of tea.

 

Freux:  That’s why I got one when you offered, clear the palate. 

 

Chip:  I’ll get, we’ve got tea service here, I’ll get you one. Hold on. Hold on. It’ll be here in a minute.

 

Freux:  It’s like that, huh?

 

Chip:  It’s totally like that. Oh, it’s the magic of radio. So we were saying?

 

Freux:  No, I was asking you earlier, we’re talking about the you know, the taste or whatnot –

 

Chip:  Flavor.

 

Freux:  Flavor. I was asking you you know, how long are y’all curing that?

 

Chip:  Yeah that you know, the processing part was our problem, and we’re really lacking employees here and infrastructure. We got great people we work with but you know, we’re man, my eyes are bigger than my stomach, so I’m trying to grow more weed than I can actually handle.

 

Freux:  Yeah. I think that’s, I think that’s something a lot of Oklahoma’s out here are doing.

 

Chip:  Oh hell yeah, man. That’s the great part about Oklahoma.

 

Freux:  Go big or go home.

 

Chip:  I don’t think there’s been any other state we’ve been involved in where we’ve actually been able to grow more weed than we could handle.

 

Freux:  It’s a crazy concept.

 

Chip:  Fuck yeah, man.

 

Freux:  You never thought it was possible –

 

Chip:  Yeah, I know, man. You know, it’s so funny when we moved down here. You got it too. People were like, “Oklahoma?!”

 

Freux:  Oklahoma’s badass man. I mean it’s where it’s at right now. It’s where, it’s where everybody involved with cannabis wants to be right now.

 

Chip:  If you’re into ganja and really into the plant, this is one of the few places that you can actually like, do it. 

 

Freux:  That was beautiful man.

 

Chip:  Right? Right, man? It might be a difficult market you know, there’s definitely a lot of people here growing weed. There’s a ton of dispensaries here. You’re going to be in competition if you want to do that.

 

Freux:  But 7000 growers, 5000 disposers, something like that?

 

Chip:  Yeah, so many so many, but man, you can plan out however many seeds you want. You can have as many clones and as many plants and scale as fast as you want. You can you know, unlike California, you’re not required to like have certain markups at dispensaries. You can sell however you want. You can be the like, discount cheap person, you can sell it for the most money possible, right? Right, you can have the absolute best or absolute worst weed as your business model.

 

Freux:  Free market capitalism.

 

Chip:  It really is free market here. And if there’s any others, you know, people involved in legislation, involved in policy writing, there’s anybody involved – look, stop trying to regulate the plant so much. Stop trying to regulate the business of the plant so much, right? Just regulate the compliance of it. Just regulate, like, you know, in a simple metric track and trace, right? Just simple stuff. And the industry will grow beyond your belief in your community. But if you’re there over regulating California, it’s over regulated, and I’m starting to sound like a super conservative talk show. But no, it’s true, man, right? Like they’re that, we are a capitalist country. It is a free market society. We shouldn’t be regulated in this industry.

 

Freux:  I agree.

 

Chip:  Yeah, the people it gets sold to like, you know, 21 and up, like health concerns, absolutely. Pesticides concerns, input concerns, absolutely. Zoning, of course. 

 

Freux:  Yeah, all that stuff, yeah.

 

Chip:  But man, forcing me to pay 40 cents per plant tag.

 

Freux:  That’s ridiculous.

 

Chip:  That’s, that’s ridiculous, man. There should just be a simple track and trace system, or the state should pay for it.

 

Freux:  That’s a shakedown right there man. 

 

Chip:  Right? That’s a total shakedown. And you know, we’re talking about metric that’s one of the things going on here in Oklahoma, right? Oh, man, you should, we should rename this, what is it called? What is this weed called?

 

Freux:  It’s called Dolato but it’s spelled like d-o-l –

 

Chip:  Yeah, I got that dough, I got the do-do-do-dolato. Man. This is like Politico though. As soon as, as soon as I hit it, I started talking shit about the government.

 

Freux:  Straight up, huh?

 

Chip:  It will do that to you though, it really is a, it’s a, I mean, many people believe it to be a conservative or red state, which it may be all of those.

 

Freux:  I think it’s a little bit of Oklahoma’s got a great vibe and we almost kind of get the best of both sides, honestly.

 

Chip:  Man, we’ve had like one or two super, super, super conservative people, like try to preach their super conservative stuff, to us. One or two, that’s it. Right? Everybody else, they don’t care. Politics never comes up, right? Like you know.

 

Freux:  I’ve gotten the same vibe. I mean, everybody I’ve come across out here  issuper cool. Oklahomans are really cool people.

 

Chip:  They are. They respect your personal rights and property as a community outlook or as a community policy. There’s no interference in business, right?

 

Freux:  Yeah, I mean, they kind of let, they’re very pro business state and they want everybody to  succeed. I mean, they’re setting everybody up to succeed I feel like. I mean, if you’re running a good business model, you got a good product, you got a good you know, good thing going on. They kind of let it, they kind of let it happen, you know?

 

Chip:  Okay, okay. Well if you, if you’ve been listening to the podcast for a while, then you know that I like potting soil, make potting soil – coco potting soil, specifically. And you know, I just wanted to talk to you about how much I love coco fiber and why you should use it, and why your plants should be in coco fiber and they’re gonna love it too. One man, my new product Cocos Growers HP is just an incredibly clean product and made for indoor cultivation. I mean, you can use it anywhere but man it is clean as you can get it. We try extremely hard to avoid all cross contamination, all bugs weeds in seeds, we keep it all inside this manufacturer, all inside. We treat it like a bakery, we start out clean, we end clean, we clean up while we’re going through the day. We really try to take a great effort to put this quality product together. So the number one reason you should use Growers HP is man, it is clean. Number two reason you should use Growers HP is man, this product we have developed it I mean almost specifically because we want to see like, just incredible root development and root growth. And that’s what this product does. You know, I used to be a die hard coco only guy, compost coco, and I just saw the benefits of peat. And we so we started putting small amounts of peat in it. Man, the roots take off. Coco and peat just blend together so well. So there’s the second reason that you should buy Growers HP is man, just an increased root development. Now, the third reason you should buy Coco HP is because man, it’s a really, a light potting soil. And when I mean light, I mean that like you can, most people can pick up four bags at once. Kind of no problem. It’s light like this, because of the way we make it, the way we can control how much water we put in it, we make it a really dry elevation, or really dry high elevation area in Colorado. So it dries out really nicely and when it gets in the bag, man, it’s as light it’s lighter than any potting soil of two cubic foot that you can get. So there’s the third reason man, that it’s a really light product that the moisture is controlled in it specifically. Now, the fourth reason, man, it’s real easy one man. It’s just because your friend, Chip: asked you to go support him, support The Real Dirt and buy some Growers HP. So there you have it, man. Top four reasons why you should use Growers HP in your garden. Hey guys, just quick break to tell you about Cultivate OKC, Cultivate Colorado. You know, I got into the hydroponic supply business from 2009. I had wanted to open up a retail hydroponic store for years and I was already making potting soil at that point, maybe some fertilizers and some other stuff I was into. You know, I hadn’t opened up a retail shop and I got this opportunity to open one up in California. Right as I was fixing to open up down in Riverside, Colorado came along. Ended up being better, bigger opportunity, opened up our Colorado stores. And you know, man, it’s just, we’ve been off to the races ever since. Now we’re in Colorado and in Oklahoma, we ship all over the country and even the world man. It’s amazing the people that call us, contact us that needs, that need some equipment to grow their fine cannabis with. So if you need any help, any equipment, you want to come to a great grow store where people don’t judge you. We’re not clique-oriented, we’re just there to help you grow. Man, come see us at Cultivate. Cultivate Colorado, we’re on Exit 206 after 25. We’re also on the Stapleton Monaco Exit there on I70. And down in Oklahoma City, our newest store and man probably our nicest showroom right now, is we’re right on the corner of 10th in Meridian. So come check us out, 1101 North meridian. Yeah, man. Got any questions about growing no matter if you’re big or small, just come on in. We’ll be glad to chat with you. So, I got carried away and we were talking about processing, which I’ve said over and over again, on The Real Dirt is one of the most important parts of cannabis. People ruin great intentions and great crops and great weed all the time through bad processing. And that’s what I did here too. I’m not saying it’s ruined, right? But I’m not, I’m also, it didn’t reach its full potential. Because of my inabilities to be able to give it that.

 

Freux:  Postharvest is almost as important as you know –

 

Chip:  It’s just as important, it’s just as important.

 

Freux:  I mean you could, you know, for sure.

 

Chip:  You know, the way I would like to do this is big leaf it moderately right before harvest. Two weeks, right? You know, this is outdoor greenhouse, it gets a little leafier than indoors. Hang it and dry it in something like a 70 degree room with, you know, the humidity goes from 90% down to 70, 65% by the time it’s all said and done, right? But it needs that whole swing. I want it to dry in like, 10 days to two weeks. And then I want to take it off the stem branch, the big branches, right? Take it – 

 

Freux:  Like buck it down?

 

Chip:  Yeah. But still like leaves stem on it. So it’s just small branches. 

 

Freux:  Ah, gotcha, gotcha.

 

Chip:  And put that in a food grade container, right? Because it’s still like slightly moist, then?

 

Freux:  Yeah.

 

Chip:  Right. And and, and let it, and then burn this container and let it dry, right? I leave the stems on it so it doesn’t compact, right? Because if you just cut it all off, the bud could tear. It goes into the bins, then it goes flat. Especially when you have a lot stacked on top. That’s why you can’t really fill them up all the way. And you cross stack the branches and you don’t fill them up all the way. We do like about half to three quarters. 

 

Freux:  Yeah.

 

Chip:  Right. And this is like the best, my best case scenario, right? And then that whole process right there and it takes about you know, that also could take a week to 10 days. Meanwhile maintaining the same like, you know 70, 60 tight bob? Right 70%, 60%. From there, we generally take the bucked up weed, either put it in a large like, Turkey bag or a large other, you know, food grade plastic bag of some sort, right? Tie it off, and it’s it’s stored until we can trim it. 

 

Freux:  Okay.

 

Chip:  Right. And then, you know, we trimmed to various different ways this year, we called an outside trim service. Did you use those guys?

 

Freux:  No, I talked to them. We talked to them. But um, we’ve had kind of like a, like an in house crew that’s been working with us for a while so we kind of just, you know, kind of handle that in house. 

 

Chip:  We were lucky enough to hire some people who came in with some awesome machinery, cleaned everything. We also have like, Green Bros, but there’s only a couple of us here. 

 

Freux:  I used to use Green Bros way back in the day.

 

Chip:  Yeah. And we still and we still do use it. But like, yeah you know, technique required. We had those guys just barely clean it. I shouldn’t say barely clean it, mostly clean it. And then we had after that people go by and ham trim it.

 

Freux:  So kind of just like run it through there and get the initial stuff off, and then clean it up.

 

Chip:  Yeah, yeah, totally. Totally. And then –

 

Freux:  Do you feel like that saves time than actually just hand trimming it? Do you feel like that saves time?

 

Chip:  I don’t know about time, but what it does –

 

Freux:  It’s labor.

 

Chip:  It’s labor.

 

Freux:  Yeah.

 

Chip:  It’s significantly less labor costs per pound. If you can do it all at the same time, right? If you can do that, that quick pass with the machine and trim it right then, that’s the fastest absolute way to do it. 100%.

 

Freux:  So basically just cut it –

 

Chip:  The least amount.

 

Freux:  Even the machine one person, it’s in there kind of doing –

 

Chip:  And then like, 4, 5, 6, 20 however many people you need to clean it right then, right? Then you can, you can move and we were doing, you know, 80 pounds a day with the batch one. That’s what it was, batch one trimmer. 

 

Freux:  Dang, that’s a lot.

 

Chip:  Yeah, and you can go faster, you can absolutely go faster, right? You could do 300 pounds a day with the right weed? You could do 300 pounds a day, right? If you, if you just wanted to have it machine trimmed you yeah, you could. But, but we just were like running it through it to knock off all, most of the stuff. And then we just bend it up right then and then I had two guys go through it over the course of about a month. All in all, it equaled out like, one of the, one of the most affordable processes and way to do it. But I think we won yes if we have like, I would bet like, six people on the other side of that trimmer, we could trim 80 pounds in a day. Gotta have it bucked, so it takes, it took like four people bucking to do that 80. We could probably had six people buck in, six people trimming, right? And like, literally done 80 pounds in a day with 12 people.

 

Freux:  That’s pretty solid.

 

Chip:  You can see the trim job. I mean, it’s uh, yeah –

 

Freux:  It looks good.

 

Chip:  I mean, there’s there’s a leaf or two, or a stem or two, but like, you know, it doesn’t look round. It’s not beat up, all the buds have a different shape.

 

Freux:  No, it looks good. Looks super solid.

 

Chip:  We excelled at that part of it. But we didn’t excel at how fast we got the plants in the bins. So they got too dry before they went in the bins. They got, they were too wet before they in. We had too much so we couldn’t open and look at everything. right? We didn’t have enough like, trained you know, people to know like the feel and the touch of it all. And you know, it was starting to take hours and hours a day to just go through it and look at it all, right? And so that was really what started to bring the quality down, man. I couldn’t control the temperature either. I had some temperature problems in my dry room.

 

Freux:  Yeah, that yeah.

 

Chip:  That’s when we had that we had that big storm.

 

Freux:  Yeah, I mean, if – 

 

Chip:  A big storm, the power went out, it was fucking negative 10 for days on days. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Freux:  That’s the thing, I mean, if you can’t control the temperature in the dry and I mean you’re at a you know, definite disadvantage. But you know what you’re saying just a second ago, I mean, no one that perfect, you know?

 

Chip:  Oh, this is really good. I’m not gonna smoke any more of it. I’m gonna try another one. You want to you want to spin again? Let’s spin again? 

 

Freux:  Yeah, let’s go ahead.

 

Chip:  Spin again. Let’s see. Here, you pick out one for me. I’m going to pick out one for you. Because, yeah.

 

Freux:  Which one’s that?

 

Chip:  This is also one I’m partial for, is Cookies and Cream.

 

Freux:  Oh, that was the first one you showed me earlier. That’s awesome.

 

Chip: Look at the bag. I just wanted to hand pick out nuggets that I thought I would want to smoke for you. Okay, and what do we got here?

 

Freux:  Sugar Babies.

 

Chip:  Sugar Babies, uhuh? Aren’t you trying to get sued?

 

Freux:  That’s fine.

 

Chip:  The Skittles controversy, what do you think about that?

 

Freux:  I don’t know, it’s pretty crazy.

 

Chip:  Oh shit. Now damn, Sugar Babies. Here’s the thing, man. This is more like, this have more, has the original OG smell.

 

Freux:  Yeah.

 

Chip:  This right, I mean, oh yeah, this is more of like, like, like the OG.

 

Freux:  Honestly, it’s a truth that Sugar Baby is like my favorite thing smoking right now. It’s seriously just –

 

Chip:  Man, why didn’t you just say this to me first, man?

 

Freux:  Well, you picked earlier, you know?

 

Chip:  You know I like that LA. This is it right here. Man, this is great. Now tell me about this.

 

Freux:  Sugar Babies, it’s Dungeon Vault genetics. We had a pretty nice hunt of that, we probably popped about 80 seeds initially. 80 seeds went into like you know, it’s out to germinate. And then from there, we, I guess 80 or so? 23 to 28 females made it and then you know, that’s actually probably my favorite pheno right now. But the crosses Runts times Sugar Daddy, Sugar Daddy is Wedding Cake and Grandpa’s Breath.

 

Chip:  So Runts.

 

Freux:  Runts.

 

Chip:  Grandpa’s Breath –

 

Freux:  Grandpa’s Breath and Wedding Cake. Pretty nice little tree right there. Interesting combo.

 

Chip:  How did you, how did you sniff out this pheno?

 

Freux:  So to honestly tell you the truth, I’m the type of person when, to me, it had the craziest flavor. I mean, it looked good. I really liked the plant. ,

 

Chip:  Did you notice it growing?

 

Freux:  I did notice it growing. And it was kind of in the back of a room in the corner. And it was one of the last things –

 

Chip:  Shy girl in the corner, worked at the library on the weekend.

 

Freux:  It was, it was back in the corner. And I didn’t notice it right at the end, it was like the last thing kind of when I was you know, going through the room at the end that really caught my attention. But it’s really in the dry room and the taste because you know, you can never really tell on a plant. Sometimes that smell in the plant doesn’t really translate over to either the smell or the flavor. So it was one of the ones when I was smelling it really you know, caught my attention, but it was the flavor. The flavor was absolutely nuts to me. And then I was kind of going back and looking at some pictures I’d taken.  And I was like, “Oh another plant, looks really good.” It was kind of chunky. Because there’s so many plants you forget sometimes, you start kind of looking at your your logs or whatnot. But to me smells, smell and taste, that’s that’s what I like to select for.

 

Chip:  And there’s this great, like Granddaddy or Urkle smell.

 

Freux:  Yeah.

 

Chip:  Like it’s like a soft, I call it like, it feels it smells like baby powder feels. Feels soft.

 

Freux:  That’s awesome. Yeah, I mean, it’s got so much you know, Granddaddy Purp in the lineage, you know? Through some of the other you know, parent strains in there. To me it was, it had that like, Skittles Zest Candy but it was also like Cakey. Again, I guess coming from like the Runts.

 

Chip:  I’m just gonna put my shit away, man.

 

Freux:  I don’t know, it really it really caught my attention on the the flavor. I mean, pretty much it’s very, very rare you smoke weed and it gets better throughout the joint. It almost gets more flavorful like, the halfway through it. It comes back there like –

 

Chip:  You’re like ruining the movie for me. Telling me how, the plot. You know, the plot thickens. He speaks and tells me the end. He speaks and be like, “Oh and the road, it’s so good.” And then you’re out for hours. Hey, I just wanted to stop and say I’m having a really good time today on The Real Dirt podcast. And we’re laughing, this is like, our last podcast was like, March of last year right as COVID hit.

 

Freux:  Yeah, you’re right. We tried to do it outside too.

 

Chip:  Right, right, right. And yeah, yeah, that was our last, our last podcast. Right, right? And so it is, it’s a different world now.

 

Freux:  Oh, it is.

 

Chip:  Right? It’s a much lighter mood, there’s laughter in the air.

 

Freux:  Somewhat back to normal now, huh?

 

Chip:  Hahaha. It’s back to normal. I’m just gonna take a puff off this, there’s dry hidden in here. It’s got that, like I said that baby powdered soft feeling.

 

Freux:  Yeah.

 

Chip:  This guy has this other like, cheese.

 

Freux:  Cheese? You get cheese?

 

Chip:  Cheesy like, like, like Brie or cheese rind or something like that.

 

Freux:  There’s something in there –

 

Chip:  On the dry hit, on the dry hit. Almost like mmm, not the blue part of it. But the cheese of like Roquefort.

 

Freux:  That’s right.

 

Chip:  Right. What is this, where’s the Bob Marley lighter? Oh it’s Bob, Bob Marley.

 

Freux:  I don’t know, I’m always big on just like, I mean pretty much flavor to me. Smell and flavor, terps you know? Just interesting unique to me that it has something, there’s something in there that the combination of everything you can kind of like, everything like kind of blends together, and almost make it its own like, flavor. It’s super mouth coating. To me, it has flavor all the way to the puff, that last puff. And I get giggly on it. Like, I like to smoke and wake up smoke a joints to that, have a great day. I get the giggles often the more, I love it, it’s upbringing.

 

Chip:  Goddamn, that’s really good, good, good weed, man.

 

Freux:  I’m glad to hear that. I really appreciate it.

 

Chip:  Yeah, that’s the kind of weed I wanna smoke. Well, I guess the podcast is over now. Right, right, the sound crew is like, maybe I should try it. “Hey, can you pass the tray over, Chip:?” Yeah, they’re so enthusiastic. They’re moving all the old crumbs off the tray so they can get a fresh joint.

 

Freux:  Oh, that’s the way to do it. This was the Cookies and Cream. Definitely got that like, the kind of like, you know, Cookie-esque kinda like you know, sweet but like almost doughy.

 

Chip:  Very Vanilla.

 

Freux:  Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

 

Chip:  You know the ‘Nilla Wafer, you get that one?

 

Freux:  Vanilla Wafer? That’s the name of the strain? 

 

Chip:  Yeah.

 

Freux:  I don’t. Is it out there?

 

Chip:  Mhmm.

 

Freux:  People are definitely gonna have to start chasing the day on stuff like that, huh?

 

Chip:  No shit, no shit. I you know, I’m sure there’s a Vanilla Wafer out there. If not, I’m making one right now. The Nilla Wafer, Vanilla Wafer, a collab.

 

Freux:  We’ll do a collab. 

 

Chip:  Vanilla Wafer Collab.

 

Freux:  A little breeding project.

 

Chip:  Alright, so what would it be? What would it be? 

 

Freux:  Need something you know, kind of you know Cakey Doughy Cook-esque. We can start with that Cookies and Cream, and then maybe add something like, you almost need those, you know those OGs back in the day that were just like, almost like, I don’t even. Something like, it was something like, really gassy sometimes that’ll kind of cut the sweetness almost make it a little like, wafery enough.

 

Chip:  Yeah, totally. We need like, a Triangle.

 

Freux:  Yeah, there you go. A Triangle or a –

 

Chip:  Right. And a –

 

Freux:  Some are super gassy.

 

Chip:  Yes, some are just super gassy or an Alien, right? But it’s something like that, cross with one of the Cakes or the Cookies.

 

Freux:  Yep. It’d have to be a Cake or Cookie, something like that.

 

Chip:  I mean you know, if you’d like if you want a winner, a home winner would be like, like, Wedding Cake crossed with, with what was, what was that again? I got –

 

Freux:  Right there, what you’re smoking?

 

Chip:  What am I smoking again?

 

Freux:  Sugar Babies.

 

Chip:  I just got stoned in my sentence.

 

Freux:  It’ll do that to you, man.

 

Chip:  What are you pointing at me for? What? Oh, yeah, sure, man. Here. Oh yeah, I immediately got stoned, right? I like, hit it and like, like, the wave of stoneness came over me immediately. Like, this would sit down at elephant.

 

Freux:  It’s got some power too, you got to be careful on that.

 

Chip:  Mmm. And flavor, too. it is an old school flavor with that Urkle on it.

 

Freux:  Yeah.

 

Chip:  Right? The Og doesn’t come as much through as much as I wanted to, because it smells so OG, right?

 

Freux:  Yeah. You’re really getting like, kind of like old school like Purple Urkle flavor, that’s kind of what you’re getting out of there.

 

Chip:  There’s definitely like this lavender purple –

 

Freux:  It does, yeah.

 

Chip:  Purple, like but it’s, but it’s not the like, primary taste. It’s back taste. And the front taste is the gassiness, the OG, right? Both of them are real, it’s real soft. 

 

Freux:  Yeah, I could, I could see that.

 

Chip:  Mm hmm. You know this weed is for like them hardcore ladies right here.

 

Freux:  Straight up, huh?

 

Chip:  Right? They like, they want to be like, sexy but in the streets, you know? 

 

Freux:  Yeah. I got that.

 

Chip:  Whoop ass with tire iron, but wear a dress still.

 

Freux:  Straight up, huh? Yeah, honestly, to tell you the truth. That’s my hands down the favorite pack of seeds I ever rain in the last probably two years. Dungeons Vault man, he killed that, Dungeons Vault Genetics.

 

Chip:  So strong. So good. 

 

Freux:  Yeah. 

 

Chip:  So we were talking about our collab? And we came, what was said, Wedding Cake and what?

 

Freux:  We had to pick some super –

 

Chip:  Oh, Cookie.

 

Freux:  So many people have bred with the Wedding Cake though. It’s like, what we’d be thinking, it’s probably already been done. We’d have to pick something like, what’s like something, what’s something like, off the beaten path OG that’s like, super gassy. You would know better than me.

 

Chip:  Well, I mean, if we were talking Triangle and Wedding Cake, yes. Somebody’s already  done that, sure. Right? It seems like you know we get, we still stick with the OG, the Triangle and we just got to go with the pastry flavor, flavor of flour, butter and eggs, vanilla all rolled up into one.

 

Freux:  If somebody out there has got a vanilla strain, they ought to send it our way, you know? And then we can you know, it’s some sort of vanilla with that, you know?

 

Chip:  Yeah. I really love the GMO. And often I feel I get the – oh look, SMO. Look at that. Awesome the crosses of it have that like cake, or vanilla like taste of it. What is this?

 

Freux:  This GMO and basically Sherb Crasher, but just saying that made me want to get there. When you said GMO,  you got to put your nose in there. 

 

Chip:  Damn, Sugar Babies. Alright. Oh man, that’s so good. I don’t know if we’re gonna be able to beat that today. Hold on. I’m gonna have to clean my palate.

 

Freux:  That Sugar Baby’s my favorite weed right now.

 

Chip:  What do you think, sound guy?

 

Travis  It’s pretty good.

 

Chip:  Sound guy gives his thumb up

 

Freux: It’s got a good flame, huh?

 

Chip:  Mhmm. See, this needs the gas.

 

Freux:  Yeah.

 

Chip:  You put the gas on the GMO, who’s doing that?

 

Freux:  The gas GMO?

 

Chip:  Yeah.

 

Freux:  A lot of people are doing that right now.  

 

Chip:  How do you make some original shit? 

 

Freux:  No, I know. It’s hard these days.

 

Chip:  But you have to have your own original lines.

 

Freux:  You just got to start somewhere and make it yours.

 

Chip:  Right, right? If you’re, if you’re trying to talk about, if you’re talking about starting out seeds, there’s so many people doing it. You have to have original lines. 

 

Freux:  It’s gonna take a little while to even get there.

 

Chip:  It’s gonna take a little while to get there. You need to come out of the woodwork. I’ve been doing it for 10 years, and not just want to get into it right away.

 

Freux:  Ten years of prep work, huh?

 

Chip:  Mhm. Sherba – sherba dangle dingle? What was it?

 

Freux:  It doesn’t really have a name. It’s just the cross. The cross is GMO times Sherb Crasher. 

 

Chip:  Sherb Crasher.

 

Freux:  But um, when you mentioned GMO, it’s got that like GMO funk but a little sweet there too with the, with the Sherbert or the Sherb Crasher.

 

Chip:  It’s definitely got the GMO on it, man.

 

Freux:  Yeah, so that’s one of your favorite flavor profiles right now, is the GMO?

 

Chip:  I like how, I like when you cross it, it comes out with that cake or that butter type of taste.

 

Freux:  A lot of the GMO crosses you know, we’ve ran them. They’ve all been very GMO dominant. Like, pretty much are like you know, damn near overpowers everything it touches. Talking about washing, that’s a wash right there’s is GMO. 

 

Chip:  I bet this goes good outside. 

 

Freux:  I bet it does too. Why don’t we find out?

 

Chip:  Let’s do it. Test patch. Yeah, you’re talking about hoophouses earlier today?

 

Freux:  Yeah.

 

Chip:  Yeah, we just we just built a bunch today. 

 

Freux:  I’d love to go to see it.

 

Chip:  We’ll walk down there a little later and check out the hoophouses. That’ll be the hoophouse episode. Oh yeah, we’re gonna hang out all day. We’re gonna have like, Episode 47 of Freux, Chip:’s house.

 

Freux:  How many said y’all have corn right now?

 

Chip:  Man, we’ve got eight houses planted with auto flowers.

 

Freux:  Anything you’re excited about?

 

Chip:  Oh yeah, man we got some Cookie Dawg and some Cookie Dog Thin Mint cross autoflowers.

 

Freux:  Nice.

 

Chip:  And we’ve got more 3 Bears which we really love growing, it’s a great extractor and you know, everybody loves the extract on it.

 

Freux:  Everybody did like that one. 

 

Chip:  Looking good.

 

Freux:  You let me sample some of that. It had almost like a, like a pair of Starburst flavor to it. It kind of smelled like a, like a candy almost like a Starburst pair if that makes sense.

 

Chip:  Yeah, we dubbed it Papaya Frosting.

 

Freux:  I like that. I can see that, yeah.

 

Chip:  You know, you know dried fruit was –

 

Freux:  It definitely  had fruit.

 

Chip:  We all kept saying, “Oh it’s like dried fruit.” I’m allergic to papaya and mango, so I don’t really care for the stuff. Actually I love mangoes, just everytime I eat, it my mouth breaks out.

 

Freux:  Oh, that’s not good.

 

Chip:  It’s uncomfortable.

 

Freux:  Really taste the Cookie on this Cookies and Cream right here.

 

Chip:  Oh dude, this is a smoke out with Freux today. Yeah Freux, so tell me about what’s going on dude. You’re selling your shit all over now, huh? All over Oklahoma.

 

Freux:  Yeah, we’ve been fortunate enough to get out there and hit you know quite a bit of this data. I feel like we’re in you know a lot of good areas. We always like to expand them more.

 

Chip:  I know I should have gotten a zip code restriction dude.

 

Freux:  Straight.

 

Chip:  No, you’re totally expanding. I saw your grow room. The last time I was over there, you were just adding on, it was just starting to come online [inaudible 48:45]. And like, you’re starting to see the product all over Tulsa and OKC now.

 

Freux:  Yeah, Tulsa, OKC.

 

Chip:  You’re getting the outlying areas?

 

Freux:  We actually hit quite a bit of the outlying area. Like we got friends in like, like Sallisaw and trying to think like Roland, and [inaudible 49:09], Sparrow. I’m trying to think what else, can’t even think off the top of my head.

 

Chip:  Oh yeah, GMO.

 

Freux:  You have to come by, the last time you were, we were kind of just getting all that together, getting dialed in, you know?

 

Chip:  You were just transplanted some plants. You were a little behind or something. You were making the first run in one of the rooms and there, people were like, “Oh, I don’t know what we’re doing here.” People rolling joints over in the corner, turning weed in the other room, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah totally. Well, that’s great, dude. How’s the new building?

 

Freux:  The new building’s going good. It’s definitely to help us like, you know, meet the demand. When we first got started, we were you know, kind of limited and I’ve been able to, you know, build out and build more rooms on the last couple years. And yeah, we’ve been thankful for all of our accounts, all our dispo partners, all the patients, you know, we appreciate every one of them. You know, without them we wouldn’t, we wouldn’t be anything. 

 

Chip:  And is it, it’s Jive Cannabis?

 

Freux:  Yeah. Jive Cannabis Co. Just Jive, Jive Cannabis Co. Yeah, either or.

 

Chip:  Right.

 

Freux:  Yeah, you know, just kind of trying to dial in, keep our flavors fresh, you know, trying to, you know, stay with the, you know, the genetics. And we’ve always been quality over quantity, just trying to give everybody the experience that we would like, you know. We’re all, like I was saying the last time, we’re all kind of sewers, so we like to give everybody that stuff you know? Not a lot of people are really trying to, people are in it for different reasons, you know? People can be in it for money, you can be in it for this, but I know us personally, we’re just trying to give the best quality product. A lot of people aren’t really thinking about the end user, their patient. You know, a lot of people you know, cut corners when they can, you know? Dial in their plans, we’re all doing different stuff and we’re, you know, taking the time, taking the effort to try to just, you know, pump out the best, absolute best quality we can. And then we’re trying to be, you know, different than everybody else as far as like flavors, you know? You know, through we’ve talked about pheno hunting and like different things, you know? You know, acquisition of different like, you know, genetics or trades or, you know, different stuff like that. You know, we’re working with breeders, collaborating with different breeders, you know, kept collabing you know, just trying to stay ahead of the curve genetic wise. It’s been great you know, it’s been a you know, it’s been a process. A lot of time and effort goes into it but uh, you know, wouldn’t give it for the world. I mean, to be able to get up and do what you love every day is a blessing, you know, so.

 

Chip:  Oh, man, you’re so right. Man, this weed’s great. This is the SMO, and one of the things I got to say about it as I’m sitting here puffing on it here, it just drags so good.

 

Freux:  Yeah. Smokes very well.

 

Chip:  It just smokes very well. It’s like, it’s got, has the authentic GMO flavor, which is like leads to the Kim Dawg, right?

 

Freux:  That musty, stanky – 

 

Chip:  Yeah, exactly. It’s a lighter color though than Kim Dawg. But here’s what really thing I’m noticing. So you grow all this weed the same?

 

Freux:  Do I know?

 

Chip:  You grow all this weed the same?

 

Freux:  Yes.

 

Chip:  It’s all in the same room? It was all tried the same?

 

Freux:  Yes.

 

Chip:  Right, right. Man, look at that. Look at that, like white ash. 

 

Freux:  Yep.

 

Chip:  Right? One of those other strains didn’t quite have as much white ash, but it still had like, really good flavor. 

 

Freux:  Yeah.

 

Chip:  Right? But like, you know, this is the most flavorful one and it also has this like, white column of ash. I mean, it almost looks like a cigarette ash, right? Right? Look at that. And it comes off like a cigarette ash and this is the tastiest one, right? And other stuff tastes good too but, there’s something to that shit, right? I know it’s a huge debate. Oh, white ash doesn’t mean anything, right? But I just randomly noticed it, right?

 

Freux:  Yeah, I mean, I know there’s a, that like you said, a big debate going on whether it means this or it means that. I definitely prefer white ashes. Like you said, something about, seems like the strains and stuff like that, that seemed to smoke the best, always do burn kind of like white ash. Especially too I mean, depending on how you know, I guess obviously you grow it or take care of it too. But uh, I think a lot of it does just have to do with you know, proper care and you know, the way you take care of it. I mean sure, genetics probably does have something to play into it.

 

Chip:  You grew and dried all this weed about the same and I know individually it’s different, right? They all have different water requirements. They all take up nutrients differently, right? This is in the same room, and the ash looks different. 

 

Freux:  Yeah.

 

Chip:  Right? That’s the amazing part to me. That shows like, what’s really going on with the plant.

 

Freux:  Yeah.

 

Chip:  Right? And how like I’m continuing to learn about you know, cannabis and how it’s processed and grown, and more and more, it’s not just one way, that’s what I see.

 

Freux:  Oh, I got you.

 

Chip:  Right?

 

Freux:  There’s 1000 different ways to skin a cat, there’s no right or wrong way when it comes to cannabis, you know? Let’s do honey.

 

Chip:  That’s right. 12 minutes ago, we ordered tea from this shabby little restaurant off the North Canadian River. Wellston Oklahoma, Freux’s on the way, Freux’s on the way with another j and it’s okay. And it’s okay. Freux’s on the way, Freux’s on the way, Freux’s on the way with another j and it’s okay.

 

Freux:  All you need was your guitar for that one, huh?

 

Chip:  I can’t sing and play at the same time. I’ve been off the guitar, man, I really, you know, and I need to get back on it. That’s for sure. I need to get back on it. It’s so good for my brain. You know, even if I’m bad at it, right? 

 

Freux:  You get lost in the music, you know? It’s kind of a –

 

Chip:  Strum, strum, strumy-dee, strum, strummy, strum. Oh, excellent. Well, hey, man. I’m glad you got your tea here. Yeah.

 

Freux:  Really good. I didn’t really expect it.

 

Chip:  You’re able to cleanse your palate?

 

Freux:  Feels good now.

 

Chip:  Right. Wait, what are you puffing on over there? That looks like a giant goddamn bambam stick over there. It’s like Fred Flintstone rolled up a huge hooter out of a pterodactyl egg.

 

Freux:  That was those uh, those handpicked nuggs that you gave me for the Cookies and  Cream, yeah. The ones you said that you would want to smoke. 

 

Chip:  I would want to smoke, right.

 

Freux:  Good choice on it.

 

Chip:  Right. You know my first weed dealer turned me on to this, right? It’s like oh, when your friends come over, you give them the best nuggs out of the sack. And then you sell like normal people sack.

 

Freux:  Yeah. Straight up, huh? 

 

Chip:  Yes. Yeah, here’s to you, Ed. Thanks, bro. Gave me some great skills. I rolled in one day and he did all his business in the bathroom, right? And so you know if the cops came, you can wash it all down, right? Clean it all up so weed’s everywhere. We’re like doing the deal and I pull out like you know some weed to smoke and he goes, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, what’s going on man?” “I was just gonna roll up a joint.” And he’s like, “No, man. You just kept all those buds? You should smoke that, and put that trim back into the sack.”

 

Freux:  Taught you some valuable life lessons later in life, huh?

 

Chip:  Right then, he was like, we smok the best buds, right? Oh that’s right, that’s why we’re doing this. We want to smoke the best bud.

 

Freux:  Exactly. I’m totally guilty of it.

 

Chip:  Oh yeah. I see your personal sacks over here.

 

Freux:  Yeah, totally guilty.

 

Chip:  I know those don’t look like that. Just kidding, just kidding. I know they do, I know they do, I know they do. All in jest, all in jest. No man, it’s hard to get good quality pounds with the consistent nuggets. You know, my wife wants a dispensary in Dipcon Nursery in dispensary in Oklahoma City. And it’s hard to find growers that have like, consistent looking cannabis that know how to trim it, you know? And know how, what’s nuggets to put in the sack for sale, which one to put in the leaf bag and, you know, know how to dry and trim it like, that does not come across her desk much.

 

Freux:  And that’s that like postharvest care we were talking about earlier. And I know with us, we tried to um, you know, when we’re, you know, have like, you know, raw weight sitting there ready to be made into a pound, we try to take the best nugs off top. And, you know, those are the pounds going out. And then like the smalls or the you know, we’ll throw out like anything that might you know, stem or like break off. But then that little small nuggets is what we’re using for our pre-rolls. We kind of started a pre-roll line a couple months ago and it’s all nug pre-rolls. And that’s kind of where those little nuggets that you know people are trying to sell to like the stores in the shelf, other companies or whatnot, that’s what’s going into our pre-rolls instead of like, you know, shake or anything like that. So as I work on you know, doing that, we want to make sure all the accounts and you know, dispose get the the top quality nuggs that we would want to smoke and then you know, anything that kind of falls on the bottom, you know, goes to pre-rolls or whatnot.

 

Chip:  It’s all about the quality control. It’s about the curation of the sack, right? You know, that’s has as much to do with the end user presentation –

 

Freux:  Presentation’s everything, you know? To start off with.

 

Chip:  Right, right. And you know, I mean, you know, this is a perfect example of a boutique that sells, your weed sells it highest of the market, right? And then my greenhouse over here is like really good weed but you know, it’s just like, you know, Heineken or Import. It’s not like Budweiser, right? 

 

Freux:  That was a good one. 

 

Chip:  Like Guinness. Like Guinness. No, but it’s a , it’s a, it’s a totally different thing, right? Like, you know, this is at scale, there’s, it’s, we cover a bunch of square feet for sure there’s only a handful of people that do it all. It’s part of this whole mad scientist project I have, right? Totally different business plan, then what you have, right, which is like high in boutique, right? Strain select, branded product. And that’s what I really love about Oklahoma, right? It’s like, I can like plant thousands and thousands of seeds, because I’m, you know, searching for something or want to see how it grows. Or I’m trying to develop technology or a potting soil technique or a planting seed technique, or whatever it is, right? And I can do that here, right?

 

Freux:  Every time I talk to you, you’re planting seeds. Seriously every time we’re like, “Dang, it’s a little bigger this time. A little bigger and bigger, huh?

 

Chip:  Oh, man. I love it, dude. I love it man. You can do the branded you know, model, right? Because we just sell our cannabis mostly wholesale. It’s not what branded, we sell it all by the pound, right? I see yours in the shops, in jars with cool little labels and you know, it’s different. It’s a totally different like, way to enter the market. We’re not forced to do any way.

 

Freux:  Oh, not forced at all.

 

Chip:  Like in other states, you’re like, the growers have to package it all. It all has to show up branded and packaged in the marketplace. Right now, Oklahomans might demand that in the future, but like, that’s market-driven and we’re not made to do it.

 

Freux:  Yeah, most people just do in deli style shop, put a you know big old turkey bag and kind of go from there you know?

 

Chip:  Oh man. There should, somebody, so  if there’s a shop out there – I’m sure it is – it needs to be called Old School.

 

Freux:  Yeah.

 

Chip:  And you come in and you sit down on the couch, right?

 

Freux:  Little coffee table.

 

Chip:  Little coffee table in front of you.

 

Freux:  You got a duffel bag.

 

Chip:  Pitbull running around. Cool now. And you know, some turkey bags right rolled neatly out on the coffee table.

 

Freux:  Tie that little knot on the top so they’re easy to open and close, huh?

 

Chip:  You mean the little plastic thing that it comes with? No, I don’t like, I got I got my twist technique down.

 

Freux:  There’s an art form to that.

 

Chip:  Mhm, there is. You gotta like, you really have to feel the weight and balance  of the football. Yeah, man. It’s been a great day dude. I think, I think you got me stoned, man. We have any like like, you know, like idea of what happened today? We started with so much good intentions. 

 

Freux:  Just kind of rolled with it, you know? Literally.

 

Chip:  Well, let’s recap the cannabis that we reviewed today. Today, we reviewed the –

 

Freux:  Dolato?

 

Chip:  Dolato right? 

 

Freux:  Sugar Babies.

 

Chip:  Yeah, the Sugar Babies, mmm. The SMO. 

 

Freux:  Yeah, the GMO Sherb Crasher.

 

Chip:  Which is the GMO Sherb Crasher.

 

Freux:  Looked at your Sherbert Dosidoe.

 

Chip:  The Sherbert Dosi Dosidoe, right. 

 

Freux:  And the Cookies and Cream.

 

Chip:  And Cookies and Cream? Yeah, wow.

 

Freux:  It was a nice little lineup right there. 

 

Chip:  We did see a lineup today, man. Wow, like, I haven’t had one of these in a while. Yeah, thanks. Thanks, man. We need to do this more often. You know what we need, you know what we need to do? Oh shit. Alright, I got it. We’re gonna start bringing in guest weed people to bring in, we to smoke us all out on.

 

Freux:  I would love to do. A little kind of honest review type deal. Just kinda, you know.

 

Chip:  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know get their story. Let’s see what’s going on. Like, you know, and like, and we get to smoke out. Alright, here it is. We’re looking for the top cannabis producers, growers, growers, the top don’t, I mean, you know, if you think you’re the best, you have to know you’re the best. We want the best. Only the best quality. We can show up here, right?

 

Freux:  Full flavor.

 

Chip:  Full flavor, right? And, you know, we would never be rude or mean or bash everybody, right? But you know, a completely honest and open smoke out and storytelling time of the strains, right? We can like, find out about the genetics and where they came from, and how the plants grow. And it’ll be like, if Mr. Rogers meets good old house. 

 

Freux:  I like that. That was clever right there. 

 

Chip:  No, seriously –

 

Freux:  No, I would love –

 

Chip:  I told you, yeah. We should have, we should have okay smoke out. Okay smoke out, right? We’ll get some, we’ll line a couple people up, 4.2 people up in over the course a year. This way, I can formally keep up with you and everything’s going on, you can bring more Sugar Babies back over, right? I can tell you about like all the seeds I killed, or the genetics that didn’t work out ,or the stuff I didn’t, I’m like “No, no.”  Oh and uh, and Travis over here, he can just continue like, you know, smoking joints and twisting the knobs to make it happen.

 

Freux:  You need that.

 

Chip:  Have you been doing any special effects on our voices today?

 

Travis  You’ll find out.

 

Freux:  Anytime we get good people, good company, good weed around, there’s bound to have good conversations, whether it’s cannabis related or not, you know?

 

Chip:  Oh, good times. Good times, and we’re gonna call it there on this episode of The Real Dirt. Thanks for joining. Please check out other episodes on YouTube. That is The Real Dirt on YouTube. We have many of the episodes on there. This episode will be on there. Some are video, lots of audio. You can also download any episode on iTunes, subscribe. You can get it on Spotify and all the major suppliers of your favorite podcast and hey, if you just want to check us out, come to therealdirt.com. This has been The Real Dirt, thanks again.

The Real Science Behind Compost Tea

The Real Science Behind Compost Tea

how to make compost tea for cannabis cultivation

We all know the benefits of compost when it comes to cannabis cultivation.

But we’ve also come a long way from just dumping a pile of compost into your soil and mixing it in. With compost tea, we can now incorporate compost into our cultivation practices by simply feeding the plants through irrigation, just like hydroponic nutrients.

If there’s one man who has gone to extra mile to understand the science behind compost tea in order to create powerful, organic tea mixes, it’s John Picirrilli, Founder of Cutting Edge Solutions.

“So my grandma turned me on to compost tea, I think I’ve already told you this story. She made anaerobic tea. It was just like a jug, a five gallon bucket of manure that we’d fill with water and sit there forever. And then occasionally, she’d get a scoop of water out of it and dilute it and pour it onto her radishes and tomatoes, or whatever we were growing in the backyard, right?” – Chip Baker

Even since he was boy Chip Baker was learning about compost tea and its benefits from his Grandma. And John learned a similar way himself.

 “You know, going back on some of my many mistakes, one of the early ones was doing something like that. And then you do it on a larger scale than a five gallon bucket. Because pretty soon, you see a little works pretty good, so you want more of it to use all at once.” – John Picirrilli

From a five gallon bucket to 50 gallon drums, John quickly expanded his research and development of his compost tea product. And that was 40 years ago. The science behind compost tea and growing with biologicals had limited research at the time, and John was at the forefront of looking at the microscopic details of the teas he was making.

Eventually he would start his own microbiology lab where could study compost tea and all of its components scientifically.

What John Learned

Through his decades of research, John’s findings are plain and simple.

“That’s when I realized better biology means better flower.” – John Picirrilli

While compost teas are nothing new, using them for cannabis cultivation is a relatively new practice, and that’s why John is focused on educating growers on its benefits. But explaining the complex science behind how good compost tea develops isn’t so simple, especially when cannabis cultivators come from a wide range of backgrounds, age and education.

The Real Science Behind Compost Tea

In the Season 5 premiere of The Real Dirt with Chip Baker, John and Chip dive into their history and experience with compost tea, from their first discoveries to developing their current regiment. John goes in depth about how he began and continues his studies into compost tea using his sophisticated methods to find which specific microbes and bacteria are the most beneficial for cannabis.

The two talk about the history of using compost tea, how it has evolved, and why every cannabis cultivator should be incorporating it into their regiment. And of course the two long time friends share some old school stories from the Northern California days.

‘A regulator told me a long time ago. “Don’t try to list too many things on the label. Just say it makes plants happy.”‘ – John Picirrili

Is it that simple? Find out in this episode of The Real Dirt with Chip Baker!

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FULL TRANSCRIPT

Chip: Hello, my friends. It’s so good to be back here in another episode of The Real Dirt. Got an exciting season this year for you, The Real Dirt. Wow, last year was incredible. And this year, wow. It’s gonna show so much for the cannabis market and cannabis industry. You know, we’re gonna hold on by the, fly by the seat of our pants. It’s coming so fast and so strong. If you’re involved in the cannabis industry right now, you know what I’m talking about. Everybody sitting at home, unemployed, smoking more weed than they ever have, or you know, they maybe have a little stress or – hey, also, there’s medical cannabis in so many more states now. 2001 is gonna go up in smoke. And I mean that in the very, very best way. That is my prediction, is the cannabis industry is going to be one of the saviors of the country and of the planet. If we’d all just sit back and smoke a little bit of weed, then you know, it’ll be a better place. And those of you who consume cannabis, or who work in the cannabis industry know how good this plant is. And man, dude, it has been so good. Despite of what’s going on in the rest of the country, the cannabis industry just had a banner year last year. And we’re gonna repeat it again. So these next episodes of The Real Dirt man, we’ve got a new studio, it sounds great. You can hear it right now, you can hear the bass in my voice. And I’m stoked man, we’ve been running out of this bedroom in the back of my house. And it hasn’t been the best, and the best internet reception. But man, we’re here, we’re set up for a very socially distanced event. I have many, many guests both on Zoom and as well here in the studio. I have a huge eight foot table, we can all be across from each other. We’ve got great ventilation in here. We’ll socially distance and be as careful as we can. But man, we’ve got some great people from all over the world. They’re gonna chime in this year. And we’re gonna run things a little bit different this year, I hope you guys enjoy it. But I’m really, you know, in this quest for knowledge, and previously, I wanted to know people’s story and understand stuff about them. You know, and I still want that. But one of the goals that we’re gonna have this year at The Real Dirt is we’re gonna answer questions. So if you have any question, and we’re looking on the internet, we’re looking at our Instagram, we’re looking at Facebook every single day. If you have any questions about cannabis, the cannabis industry, you know, ask us at The Real Dirt and maybe we’ll make an episode about it. So currently, we have about 35 episodes planned for this year, we’ll see how it unfolds, we’ll probably get a little bit more, a little bit less. But man, it’s gonna be really informative. If you’ve ever, I apologize for all the bad quality recordings this past year. We’re gonna do far, far better this next year. But uh yeah, man. We’re just gonna grow right along. So yeah, if you haven’t already subscribed, please go to The Real Dirt on iTunes, and on Spotify, and on Amazon and all the other major places where you can listen to podcasts. And listen, all the other episodes you know, if you’re interested in anything, you can ask us at The Real Dirt. “Hey, I’m interested in this, do you have an episode suggestion?” And we’ll give you a suggestion but you know, some of the early episodes are great, great, great information, even though they might have been four or five years ago, three or four years ago. Man, some of that stuff is just great. You guys should all go back and listen to that if you haven’t. We got about 70, 80 episodes published right now and man, they all have some great tidbits of information. But this year it’s going to be super high quality, super informative. And yeah, man. Here we go, man. My first guest is John Piccirilli. Me and John have been friends for years. He introduced himself one day to me in Humboldt County right after I’d started a potting soil plant. He literally rolled by and heard that I’d started a plant, had kind of heard about, you know, what I was trying to do, royal gold coco fiber, this was in like, 2008. John stopped by, said hi. He had a company called Cutting Edge. And so has a company called cutting edge where he makes top quality fertilizers for cannabis. And John helped me over the years tremendously. Anytime I had a question, he was there for me. And you know, when I started selling retail product with Cultivate Colorado and then Cultivate OKC, you know, really supported John and all of his products and whether it’s his 3 Part or his Uncle John’s, or, you know, the Sonoma Gold, man, he’s just got some great, great, great products. He makes nutrition for plants simple. And we’re going to talk to john about of a couple of things. We’re definitely going to get into some compost tea, and we’ll have a few episodes here, where Uncle John kind of explains it all. If you’ve ever met John, you know how he can go on, and on, and on, and on, and on for hours. So, I’m going to try to consolidate all his knowledge into you know, some good, good, good information we can all digest. But what I want you to do now is sit back, roll the largest joint you can and enjoy this episode of The Real Dirt.

 

John: Hey guys. We got John Piccirilli here. He’s the founder of Cutting Edge Nutrient Solution and pretty much go-to source of all things cannabis cultivation and nutrition. There should be like, a Google section that’s just like,  “John says, Uncle John says.” Welcome, John, thanks for coming. 

 

Chip: Thanks Chip, and happy birthday. 

 

John: Oh, yep. This is my birthday episode. For those of you who didn’t get me a gift, it’s okay. You still have all of next year to plan. 

 

Chip: Right, I mean, I was caught off guard myself. And I’ve known Chip, you know, 15 or 20 years. So…

 

John: Yeah. Well, the reason you were caught off guard is because you’re eagerly waiting to tell me happy solstice in a few days from now. And you just forget that it’s my birthday a few days beforehand. 

 

Chip: Yes. And then it gets brighter every day. 

 

John: It does. It gets brighter every day. 

 

Chip: So wow John, me and you have known each other for a long time. We met a decade or more ago, when I opened up my first humble soil plant, you walked in the door one day, and politely answered all my questions and told me how I was doing everything wrong. And now I’m successful today because of you.

 

John: Oh, I don’t know, Chip, that’s not true. You’ve been at it a long time, too. And, you know, for me, I’ve been at it for 40 years, you know. I was one of those punk kids that ran away from Berkeley at 14 and started growing in Mendocino County in 1978. So I’ve had a little bit more time to make more mistakes than you. So I’m just telling you the advice that you think I’m giving you, I’m just telling you the mistakes I made, and not to do this. 

 

Chip: Now you are a world-renowned, known as the problem solver. I’ve made that mistake for before, you know, answer for many, many, many, many, many things. Right? 

 

John: And if people don’t believe it, I tell them how much it costs to make that mistake and it scares them. 

 

Chip: Yeah, absolutely.

 

John: So they back up and they look at what kind of solutions that I’ve come up with. And those are pretty much our products.

 

Chip: I sell Cutting Edge Solutions. It’s one of our biggest sellers here at Cultivate OKC, Cultivate Colorado throughout California. It has been called the Calif-or. It starts off as a basic three part nutrition formula, but then there’s several other additives, magnesium additive, calcium additive, cal mag. I mean, you’ve got numerous, numerous products. The thing that’s great about John’s products is one, the customer service. You guys got great customer service, t feedback that you get. But man, you and Kevin go to see more gardens than pretty much anybody I know. I mean, I see a lot of gardens. But you guys like. really are in the dirt, man. You know, the thing that fascinates me is that everybody has a like, this little magic or something they do. It’s not magic, what you’re doing.

 

John: No. Well, it’s kind of magic. I mean, it’s science. But science is just a small explanation for magic. And there’s more magic than science. So you don’t always use your head, sometimes you use your heart. 

 

Chip: Yeah, I’ve seen you guys turn around more gardens, for sure, after visits and more happy customers. Is there like, one thing that, is there a common thing that people have problems with? 

 

John: Yeah, I would say using pH up and that locks out calcium, and calcium is key. And so ais phosphorus. A lot of ways that we back people out of problems is by using home tea which is a compost tea. 

 

Chip: And you know, it happens to be the topic of our episode today –

 

John: Wow. 

 

Chip: Is composting. 

 

John: That’s great.

 

Chip: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So my grandma turned me on to compost tea, I think I’ve already told you this story. She anaerobic tea. It was just like a jug, a five gallon bucket of manure that we’d fill with water and sit there forever. And then occasionally, she’d get a scoop of water out of it and dilute it and pour it onto her radishes and tomatoes, or whatever we were growing in the backyard, right? As a little kid, but I didn’t know any different until kind of I met you, John. And you started talking about compost tea, and actively aerated compost tea. Wow, if you’re not compost tea-ing now, it’s definitely something you should think about. Mostly, I recommend it for soil growers, the indoor outdoor greenhouse, it doesn’t matter applying it to the soil foliar feeding. Should I make this statement that it is the most effective thing that you can do for your garden, compost tea?

 

John: It is. It’s true. You know, probably what your grandmother did, you know, she used manure, broke down, and she poured it on and the plants got boosted, right? They look better. You know, going back on some of my many mistakes, one of the early ones was doing something like that. And then you do it on a larger scale than a five gallon bucket. Because pretty soon, you see a little works pretty good, so you want more of it to use all at once. And then you use, make a 50 50 gallon drums. And then it really goes anaerobic. And then you get acids in it that just melt the roots, when you overapply it. So then, there’s an application amount that you should use too. But I mean, that’s how I started out was, like I said, like over 40 years ago, you know, one of the benefits of being back then was you got to see cultivation going from fields and planes flying over, to actual helicopter traffic coming in. And then we had to move back in the barrage, and then ultimately back near the tree line. And then there’s a lot more microbiology that interacts with the plant then. But about the same time – 

 

Chip: So this is application. You saw this through application, you saw the biology change through application.

 

John: Right, through just trying to use the same amendments and in holes, or trenches, and grow plants and then you know, we had to march the plants back into the barrage, and then ultimately back into the tree line. And then at that time, I thought just fertilizers grew plants. But then I realized by that point that it was the microbiology that was making the chemistry available.

 

Chip: Yes, the roots, they grow the plants, don’t they? And they need that proper biology around the roots in the soil in order to digest the nutrients in order to feed the plants, right? People can argue that science all day long, but it’s pretty much how it works, right? Synthetic or organic like, you have to have that biological dynamic.

 

John: You do to have healthy plants. And otherwise you get diseases or bugs are attracted to them, which transfer diseases to other plants that are still somewhat healthy. 

 

Chip: So let’s take this back, John. Let’s do a couple things. Let’s talk about like, what is compost tea, and then we’ll talk about some like, things we can do with it, and problems it creates, and problems it solves. So, how do you define compost tea? Because I know this, people say and do this all different types of ways. 

 

John: Right. So you know, some people define compost tea as any compost, like we were saying before, put into drums of water and they make sun tea. And you know about the time we were being pushed back by the helicopters, I was making sun teas and taking horsetail which is high in silica, cutting those up, putting them in –

 

Chip: Wild, crafting horsetail. 

 

John: Right. And stinging nettle, which is not easy to collect, as you think. 

 

Chip: Got to pick it from the jungle.

 

John: Otherwise, your arms are thrashed. But you know, using different herbs and making sun teas, and that seemed to be okay. But I got more results out of it when there was bubbling going on. And then I used it before the bumbling stopped, before it got completely anaerobic. And you know, I got a microscope and I started looking at things closer. And then I got bacterial stain kits for Gram positive and Gram negative, started kind of identifying different bacteria, and started looking at fungi, and staining that with prussian blue, and that led to just building a microbiology lab. I was kind of a kid back then. That was the early realization that you can make liquids that help the amendments of the soil. But compost tea, you know, you asked me that question. And I started to aerate it, so that I could break it down further. And then about that time, you know, it was just sort of wide open. There was not a lot of research being done using biologicals. But I started to learn how to isolate them out of healthy agricultural systems, and scraping them off lichen in the forest, because I realized that some of the best plants were at the drip line were lichen were. They weren’t necessarily getting more sun, but they were growing healthier, and they yielded better, and the flavor of the –

 

Chip: Better biology. 

 

John: Yeah, better biology. And that’s when I realized better biology means better flower. 

 

Chip: I mean, compost tea is new to many people, but it’s a very old technology. I mean, I’m not sure how far back actively aerated compost tea goes. I mean, people have been bubbling compost in the liquid solution for a moment, right? But it’s new to many people. So what we mean by this is we’re actually injecting air of some sort, and people use all types of things. Are there things you should or shouldn’t use, pumps you should or shouldn’t use? 

 

John: Yeah, some people build these elaborate brewers that’s spin the whole liquid inside of a cone tank. And that might be good to generate bacteria, aerobic bacteria, but not necessarily good for protozoa. And so you know, you’re looking for three things in a compost tea that’s aerated as you say, by at least putting in an air stone if not putting in lines that are perforated, and [inaudible 16:13]. it just depends on the size of the brewer that you’re working with. 

 

Chip: Sure. I’ve made probably millions of gallons of compost tea through all my potting soil stuff and you know, royal gold, we used to apply it directly on the line and use compost tea within our products. You know, I’ve always liked the simple air bubblers, right? I always felt those made the best, you know, product, the best compost tea, even though we’ve kind of used everything. I’ve used, you know, these jet pumps that move water around, we’ve used [inaudible 16:52] pumps. Man we’ve used, you know, just like large air pumps with a bunch of lines going into it. But for some reason, the air stones, they they really do work the best.

 

John: They do, I mean, you put them in the bottom of a cone tank, a lot, you know, a line that runs from the pump into the tank, and then it’s at the bottom of a cone tank, and it has just the right amount of air. 

 

Chip: Those with bubble size, I think what it has to do with it? Because you got all those little small bubbles, and as they’re turning over in the water, they’re mixing everything, right? And you know, if you think about it, a bubble is this real like, natural like, thing. You know, I just like the idea of that anyway. I don’t know if it’s reality or not, but millions of bubbles mix better than hundreds of bubbles.

 

John: Well, you know, it’s like champagne. 

 

Chip: Yes, the champagne effect, right.

 

John: It’s the champagne of compost tea. You know? And the other ones are like the jacuzzi jet of compost tea.

 

Chip: Yeah, because you don’t really, you don’t want it really swirling. You don’t want it really bubbling, right? You just want it like, moving around. You wanna inject the right amount of air. Do you know if there’s any math involved with this? 

 

John: Oh, yeah. You know, there’s a, you know, you look at, see I’ve used of different organisms that are in a spore state or in a cis state of it, which is like your egg state for a protozoa. Take a drop of compost tea, and put it on a hemocytometer, that’s what you use to look at blood. But it’s the same thing you use in microscopy to look at the population number in one drop, which is pretty much a measured amount. And on this hemocytometer, it’s got a graph and you can estimate, do a bacteria, fungi, protozoa count. Sometimes people are off on the on the fungi because of actinomycete, which is, you know, when you’re turning your compost, you get that white fuzz on it. –

 

Chip: Yeah, I know it. On the outside, and the inside –

 

John: Right. And then you dig through that and you see all the strands, that actinomycete is helping break down the compost, but it operates at a warmer temperature, which is just on the outside shell. But when you’re making compost tea, a lot of times you have that in there. People mistake that for actual beneficial fungi. It’s beneficial in the sense that it’s breaking things down and making enzymes, but it’s also, can throw you off if you’re actually reading it. So, you need a Gram stain and there’s a certain way to identify that.

 

Chip: And all this stuff is inexpensive now, right? Like, you know, digital microscopes and you know, all this equipment is readily available to people. When I started doing it 20 years ago, it was like, $5,000 for a microscope. But now you can get it for 100 bucks, right? 

 

John: Yeah, yeah. There’s decent microscopes for 100 bucks. I mean, we pretty much use Olympus and Leica microscopes which are German lenses and those are – 

 

Chip: Well, you guys are professionals. Of course you use Leica.

 

John: Well, because we look at, because we look at a lot of samples, right? And so you can get eyestrain. It’s like, the difference between getting reading glasses and real glasses, I guess. 

 

Chip: Now me and you and other people were fascinated with it all. And we might break the microscope out and notice the balance of bacteria and fungi or protozoa over temperatures or, but most people aren’t going to nerd out quite like that. You don’t necessarily need a microscope, right? 

 

John: No.

 

Chip: No, I saw that look in your eyes. You’re like, “No, you gotta have a microscope.”

 

John: Well, you know, you were just saying it.

 

Chip: It’s not that expensive. 

 

John: They’re not that expensive. And, you know –

 

Chip: It’s easy to use.

 

John: I mean, we used to have Maverick cameras that cost like$1400 that attached with a special adapter that went on the compound microscope. In the end, you’re like spending thousands of dollars –

 

Chip: Now you can almost do it on your phone. 

 

John: Yeah, right. Exactly. And they have smaller digital microscopes and digital cameras that are maybe $100 or $200 that are great for taking photos, and sending to someone to identify something that you think is wrong with your plant. Or, you know, the cross section of a root, or you know, many different things. So it’s definitely worthwhile to get these. It adds to your digital library of things that are either going right or wrong. 

 

Chip: It’s just another tool in the tool bucket. So basically, compost tea is any type of compost that’s dissolved in water. And then we’re aerating it.

 

John: That’s a good basic definition.

 

Chip: When doesn’t it have to be compost, then?

 

John: Yeah, I mean, to be compost tea, it should be compost. Usually, it’s vermicompost. Because that’s, you know, high in bacteria. 

 

Chip: The earthworms are incredible creatures and get rid of all the E. coli. And you know, that’s the best thing about earthworms. You use a pure earth, pure black castings and you’re not gonna have any E. coli. 

 

John: Right. That’s very true. Sometimes you could have coliform bacteria, but –

 

Chip: Still rare for earthworm castings, unless it’s like, unless it’s not been screened. If it’s just compost, and earthworm castings, that’s where you see the coliform bacteria.

 

John: Well, it depends what state you’re in. And it’s not you personally, but it’s you physically. 

 

Chip: Yeah. Okay, okay. 

 

John: And you know, because different states do different tests. And you know, for a while they were mixing up E. coli, which is a coliform bacteria with all other coliform bacteria. We have coliform bacteria in our hands.

 

Chip: It’s everywhere.

 

John: It’s everywhere. It’s ubiquitous, right? So but you know, it’s not something that is going to harm you. 

 

Chip: Mostly compost tea is made from earthworm castings, water and maybe, you know, a couple of other things. I mean, there’s all types of recipes people use for all types of reasons. I know you guys sell a great, great product HumTea that is a completely formulated compost tea recipe or, what do you, how do you phrase it at? 

 

John: Yeah, so that would be a compost tea. 

 

Chip: HumTea, is it, do you call it an inoculant kit, or a starter kit, or..?

 

John: Yeah, you know, you could call it either thing. You know, I’m not very good at marketing as you know. 

 

Chip: Right, yeah, yeah. You’re great at sales though. 

 

John: Yeah. [inaudible 23:34] I could go in and say, you know, yeah, we have a spawn bag, which is a resealable plastic bag that’s impermeable by pretty much anything, except that it has a GoreTex window on it. So it allows gas exchange. And in there we have some woody material that we grow protozoa on. The actual let’s say, compost itself is a mixture of this woody material, and a mixture of earthworm castings. So the earthworm castings have really good background bacteria, fungi and some protozoa. But we enrich that and enhance that in our composting process and our finishing process. So we usually have a screen of 10 important bacteria, a few fungi, and about 22 different protozoa. So you would take this out of the bag, put it into, you know, we have brewers that have screens. And you can put it into the screen or a HumTea Brew Ball, and that’s actually floats in any container. It will even float in a reservoir. And then we have three different containers, three different say pint or quart bottles depending on the size that you buy of the HumTea inoculant. And those have certain bacteria and there are food sources in there. You know, ours is a little bit more sophisticated than just taking compost from your earthworm castings, and throwing it into some gauze or some sort of screen system, and then bubbling it in water, where a lot of people would add molasses. 

 

Chip: Because you’ve done all the work for you with the HumTea. You don’t have to have a microscope. You can just drop your pre-made formulated compost tea inoculant in a barrel of water in the compost brewer. Any compost brewer, but specifically a Cultivate OKC or Cultivate Colorado compost brewer that you can get in Colorado, you can order it online. Go to cultivate colorad.com, cultivateokc.com, we’ve got great, great deals. Better deals, and you could ever get on 15, 30, 35, 45, 65 gallon brewers. All of that will make it easier for you than just using some random container or you know, maybe not like the easiest thing to clean. But you start with a good compost tea brewer. But any type will work, right? And use the – oh I see, they’re like ” Oh well maybe not any type,” because we already kind of went over that. The ones that move too much water don’t really work so well. 

 

John: Well they work well for bacteria, to generate bacteria but –

 

Chip: So if you got a specific bacteria you’re trying to grow or wanted high in bacteria, then  you would use that.

 

John: Yeah, you wanna use of those high volume mixing, spin it around, [inaudible 26:35].

 

Chip: I mean, anybody can go out and make their own. Anybody can go out and get a bag of earthworm castings. They can get some bat guano, some trace minerals, maybe a little, the smallest amount of some sort of sugar product. They can make their own but man, the HumTea product is really so much better. You know, when you first came out with this, this is how John sold this product. He first came out with it and he gave it away. And he taught us a lot about giving stuff away, all of us in the cannabis industry. And so he would give it away – where would that have been? I mean, you gave it away all –

 

John: North coast horticulture.

 

Chip: North coast horticulture, it would have been –

 

John: In Humboldt County. 

 

Chip: Yeah, it would have been in Humboldt County. And people were like, “Oh, what do I do with this?” He was like, “Well just take a gallon home and when your cuttings are rooted, feed it to them.” Right? “Oh, I’m having problems with you know, my plant. Should I feed all my -” “Well, just start on your cuttings. Take this gallon and feed your cuttings.” And you sold so many people on compost tea and educated so many people on compost tea and Humboldt Tea that way. Off one single gallon. Change their, changed everything for them, right?

 

John: Yeah, yeah. It’s actually Humboldt Countea.

 

Chip: Humboldt Countea.

 

John: Right.

 

Chip: I see. 

 

John: And then there’s just the t-e-a at the end. 

 

Chip: And now, is there some special biology that you’ve put into the Humboldt Countea? 

 

John: Well, yeah. You know, by just raising it and generating it, and then using it in a good agricultural system and then re-harvesting it. You know, some of the bacteria alone, you know, there’s Pseudomonas putida, and that can break down herbicides. So I mean, I was working with that a long time ago, back when they used the silvicultural practice in Mendocino County and Humboldt County, was to spray hardwoods with Agent Orange that was left over from the Vietnam War. So long ago, this was –

 

Chip: [inaudible 28:44] for you and me, right?

 

John: Yeah, that’s right. 

 

Chip: Spraying all the weeds in the woods, they say it’s gonna make the world go good. Oh yeah, man.

 

John: Right. 

 

Chip: Some protest songs there, protest songs from the 90’s. 

 

John: Right. Born right out of NorCal, you know. There was fighting for their lives out there, literally. 

 

Chip: We got pesticide danger. Oh, can decide, danger.

 

John: Nice. Oh, yes. Reggae on the river, I hope it comes back. 

 

Chip: Oh, it will. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And it’ll be in memories forever. But…

 

John: Yeah, we still bring it to life. Yeah, you know, I was giving it out at first because not just to educate people, but just to give back to the community. I can see that here in Oklahoma again, where a lot of people just left because they saw corporations rising in their state, whether it was Colorado, Michigan, Washington, Oregon, California. And they wanted to be back in a community of people that share plant material. And you really see it here now. And it’s good. 

 

Chip: Oklahoma reminds me a lot of Humboldt in the late 90’s. 

 

John: Yeah.

 

Chip: Right? The organic movement, the freshness, the newness, the idea. Because even though like Humboldt, Mendocino and Trinity, they’re thought about and they are the world capital of ganja production and have been for, like 50 years, right? It’s like Mexico, Humboldt County, right? 

 

John: Right. You go anywhere in the world and they go, “Where are you from?” And you say, if you say Arcata or Trinidad, immediately they’re like, “That’s in Humboldt County. You’re from Humboldt County.” Yeah.

 

Chip: Yeah, right. So I know there’s a lot of haters out there, but that’s just how it is, the volume of cultivators up there, it’s just now incredible. But back then, in the late 90s, we had just gone through Operation Green Merchant. There was, one of the Bushes came in with an aircraft carrier off the coast of Humboldt, they had National Guard, they were like, stopping and searching people coming in and out of highway roads that just went through National Forest systems. But, you know, all kinds of illegal Gestapo type of stuff. And in the late 90s, cannabis, it was really, really underground. You know, outdoor cultivation. It had it for like, 10 years at that point was really hard, right? You had to hide it, you had to put it under trees. And people were growing indoor. It started growing indoor in like, huge farms. Absolutely some of the biggest farms in the early years. Everybody seemed to have a 40 or an 80 light indoor on a generator back then. 

 

John: Right.

 

Chip: Right? That’s kind of what’s going on here is that it’s easy to get a 200 amp license, it’s easy to get a license to grow and grow under 200 amps. Maybe that’s what I should say, 2500 bucks, $3,000 you can easily get a license. And it’s kind of the same way back then, it’s like you could go get your prescription and grow some weed and sell it to the dispensary, right? They just kind of formalized it a little bit. But the same enthusiasm, right? The same old coops coming out of the hills going, “I love weed. We used to grow it back in the whenever it is,” right? Man, and we saw it happen then. Because we had that big first explosion happened in ’97. And it was like ’97 to like ’94 or something. And then there was smaller changes in the laws like in Mendocino, they made it legal for 25 plants for anybody, and then 99 plants. If you registered, they were one of the first registrations in the country, that was back in 2004, right? And outdoor cultivation really started to take off again. We got rid of Terry Farmer and a couple of other holdouts from the old war on drugs and it reminds me all of that here. It’s like the, except it just went differently, right? Instead of there being this big political issue, you know, the police are just like, “Oh, weed’s legal? Okay,” right? And it’s not like it was in Humboldt back then where everybody fought it for years, and years. Now it’s like, “Oh, weeds legal? Okay.” People were really accepting of it here, right? They’ve embraced organic cultivation like those old days in Humboldt. Remember how it used to be if you [inaudible 33:22] wasn’t organic? Like I mean, your friends would just like, rail you for it.

 

John: It’s true. 

 

Chip: Remember?

 

John: Yeah.

 

Chip: I mean like, what, I mean, it means me and John are both hydro guys. And I love organic too, John does too. John’s got a whole like organic thing too. You know, organic supplements, organic nutrition, that we use – I’ve got some weed over there in front of us –

 

John: Oh, nice.

 

Chip: That’s all just happened in here. It’s a special time and special place in Oklahoma. And man, it’s starting to happen that way in Mississippi, Missouri, Illinois,  Michigan, right?  It’s this new great industry that still anybody can get into. In Colorado and in California now, anybody just can’t get into.

 

John: No.

 

Chip: Right? 

 

John: No. 

 

Chip: And if you guys are into it over there, and things are going great for you, me and John are both giving you a thumbs up. 

 

John: We are still there, Chip. 

 

Chip: I mean yeah, we’re – 

 

John: We’re still in Humboldt County, but –

 

Chip: We know how hard it is, man. It’s hard. 

 

John: The building codes, everything that goes along with it, the invasion of your private property. You know, touring farms here, I don’t see that I see people doing their best, instead of having to pay regulators and go through all these different code enforcement issues, and wait, and wait, and wait, and spend money on their mortgages, or leases, or whatever. In the outlying areas of major cities here, there’s no building codes. So I mean, I was just yesterday at a place that you know, they spent 300,000 on a state of the art greenhouse. And they’re putting up two more, they’re putting up one first and they’re gonna join these greenhouses together. But my point is that when people are allowed to do their best, they do great. And when people are held back by a regulatory industry that doesn’t understand what they’re doing, but wants to take opinions from everyone else –

 

Chip: And a percent.

 

John: Yes, let’s not forget that. 

 

Chip: And let’s not forget the percent of profit that they want to take as well. 

 

John: Right. And it really should just be grown and sold at the end that it’s being sold that it should be taxed. 

 

Chip: Easy enough, man, Oklahoma’s got a really good handle on it, that’s for sure. And it’s got some problems, don’t get me wrong. Back to compost tea. A couple ways, I guess, people use compost, either they like, do a soil drench, or they do a foliar spray. 

 

John: Right. So a foliar spray would be to offset other potential plant pathogenic fungi that could be on the plant like, powdery mildew. Aspergillus brasiliensis will take care of –

 

Chip: Like I know if he’s pronouncing that right. 

 

John: Yeah, I was kind of hesitant when I started because  –

 

Chip: He almost, your eyes go up in your head, like they’re having this rain man moment. 

 

John: Well you know, you throw out these kind of terms, and then people are, they can’t, you can’t catch it. It’s something that’s really got to be written down. But, I mean, that’s something that offsets and outcompetes powdery mildew, which is a big issue. Going back to this farm that I was just at yesterday, you know, state of the art greenhouse really good quality Quonset houses, and one is lit up and holding all the best mothers. But at the same time, they were put in not Chip’s soil, but another soil let’s say. And that soil was made from composted pine needles back east. And then what happens is, it’s super acidic.

 

Chip: Oh. So there was a pH problem. 

 

John: To the extreme, where the plants were basically dying. When I looked at them a month and a half ago, the person didn’t want to take them out of their 30 gallon plastic pots. So the only choice is to use a compost tea or to use HumTea, because the microbiology will start breaking things down and leeching out certain elements that are toxifying the plant. And these are prized plants. I mean, they’re, you know, they’re – 

 

Chip: Compost tea. One of its benefit really is if you have sick plants, if you have plants that aren’t doing so good, regardless of what diagnosis you think they have, compost tea will help them. 

 

John: Yeah, it’s true. I mean, it’s like magic, you see? You know it’s working because the leaves –

 

Chip: It’s kind of like chicken soup. It’s like the chicken soup.

 

John: It is, for this time of year. It’s flu season. You know, people are afraid to even cough in public. You know, will be hauled off. But you know, when you want to keep those mother plants going until the spring, and you have light in order to be able to do that in a greenhouse and you’re heating the greenhouse, if they’re in bad soil, or if they get some sort of disease because it’s too humid, and you don’t want to open it up because it’s too cold outside, compost tea or Hum Tea is is what you need. Not only foliar spray with, but run through the soil and then that has another action when it goes into the soil. It will stimulate the plant’s immune system. 

 

Chip: So there’s lots of talk about dilution when you do soil drench. Do you have a typical dilution rate? Or how about this, what’s a, because I know it’s varied. What’s the best dilution rate?

 

John: You know, when you have a brewer, say it’s even a five gallon bucket. When you make tea in that, you should be able to take 1 gallon to 25 gallons. And if you want to go thinner, you can go up to 50 gallons. One gallon of compost tea or HumTea to 50 gallons. And you’re going to get the benefit. You can pour HumTea straight on, and it’s good to do. Pour it straight on. Do it 1:25, do it 1:50. And you pour it straight on, you see a result the next day. You do 1:25, it’s two days. You do 1:50, it’s three, maybe three days. And for me, 1:25 is good because you know brewing it is roughly like, $6 a gallon. So I don’t want to spend too much money, but I want the plants to be healthy. 

 

Chip: Yeah my experience is exactly the same thing. If you, I think that the HumTea, it works best diluting it 1:1, because I think you can use it. I mean, I know you can use it just straight on, but most people can’t afford to, or the volume of it. And you know, I also try to just use it on like, just rooted plants or vegging plants, so I can get the most concentrated colony forming units in one area, right? I like the 1:1. That being said, man, like, you can pretty much pour it in any volume of liquid that you have to feed your plants, right? If you’re using a 300 gallon tank even, you will absolutely see benefit by making a five gallon compost tea and pour it in there. Now, it might work better for [inaudible 40:34] if you only have 5 gallons, and you have a, you know, a garden that would require 300 gallons of water, you’d be better off boiler feeding it, I would think. Even if it’s just on the top of the soil, because we see people doing that too. And I’ve done that too, is just take the like, direct HumTea, Humboldt Countea with a pump sprayer, right, right? Have you ever seen this? 

 

John: Yes, oh yeah.

 

Chip: They just spray it right on the top of the soil as opposed to the plant and then you get the water in and you get the like, you know, the colony to develop there. And I mean, that’s like, three bucks for something like that. 

 

John: It’s super cheap, and it’s super effective. And that’s a good point, Chip. Putting it in, regarding the sprayer, you can do full strength or 1:1 and foliar spray it. 

 

Chip: The only problem with the full stream is sometimes it’ll clog your sprayer and you have to like, screen it out anyway. 

 

John: Oh, yeah. 

 

Chip: Right? But if you just dilute it, 1:1 goes to the sprayer. 

 

John: Yeah, that’s true. 

 

Chip: Pretty, pretty good. 

 

John: And not use the bottom little part, just pour it on the top. 

 

Chip: Yeah, we screen it out exactly and try to leave the bottoms. When we’re actively doing it, and I don’t know how you feel about this, but I just try to do back to back to back to back compost teas. And I never clean out my compost tea brewer except with water. So I’ll just wash down the sides, wash down the sides, and then just start another one up. And it works. If it’s back to back to back to back to back, that seems to work great. As soon as I let it sit a few days and don’t fight with it. I gotta start over.

 

John: And there’s a good point in there is, so you’re on a farm and you’re using well water. 

 

Chip: Yeah.

 

John: So it has no chlorine in it. 

 

Chip: Correct.

 

John: Right. And chlorine isn’t really a bad problem, you can aerate it for 24 hours and it’ll, you know, take the chlorine out. But, you know, if you’re using chloramide or chlorinate, some cities use that, then you’ve got nitrogen injected with the chlorine. IT forms a more stable compound to keep the chlorine in the pipes, right? And then you have to use something like a Hydrologic Big Boy. Or, you know, if you don’t want that, you could go to your local hardware store and get a carbon filter that removes chlorine, and that’ll also remove that. 

 

Chip: Right. 

 

John: So because that will kill,  mean, why is it there? To kill biology. And you don’t want to do that. 

 

Chip: So don’t use chlorinated water.

 

John: Yeah.

 

Chip: So back to the foliar spray though. So we can use it as a soil drench, or we can use it as a foliar spray. How do you recommend people doing that?

 

John: That’s a good point. You can screen it through a piece of nylon and get all the particles out of it. And then either do it full strength or 1:1, and foliar year spray the top, foliar spray the bottom of the leaves and the stem, you’ve pretty much completely covered the plant. You can also, and this could be called foliar spraying, you could spray where the drip emitters are. And that will, the water coming out of the drip emitter will drive the biology down to where the roots are. And if you just, if you hand water, same thing. You can either throw it into your hand watering reservoir, your hand watering in or you could put, you know, just put it on the top and spoil the tops of the pots or the trench or whatever. 

 

Chip: Yeah, my first commercial application of compost tea was down in Salinas at our first Royal Gold potting soil plant down there. And I saw people spraying it on lettuce and cauliflower. They would say it was a foliar application, they just called it spray. But they’re spraying the plants and the ground at the same time. Right? To get these big rows and this stuff wasn’t plastic culture. To me, it’s like part of it all. It needs to go in the soil. You need to spray the plants. Now what is some of the benefits of spraying the plants over soil drench?

 

John: Well, spraying the plants, it will knock back powdery mildew and other plant pathogenic fungi that might grow on the leaf surface. So that’s the benefit there. It’s not really like it’s going to be able to break down any fertilizers. Some people say, well, it does, it seems to boost the plant. Well, that’s because they’re spraying with chemical fertilizers, and it’s helping move those into the plant. But in general, it’s better to spray with organic supplements than it is to spray with NPK directly on the plant. The plant doesn’t really take it in well that way. 

 

Chip: Let’s talk about compost tea and synthetic nutrients. Because this is one of the myths or maybe not myths, but concerns people have. Like, if I’m using synthetic nutrients, can I benefit from compost tea? 

 

John: You can. I mean, it depends on what type of synthetic chemicals are being used. I mean certainly, if you’re using urea, you know, you’re gonna kill things. If you’re using something that’s made, and it’s got sulfuric acid in it, you know, there’s some harsh chemicals out there. But in general, when you go into a hydroponic store, or if you want to call it a grow store, the lines of nutrients that are on the shelf are better quality. A lot of them aren’t –

 

Chip: Say at the farm store.

 

John: Right.

 

Chip: Right.

 

John: You’re not getting ag grade, you’re getting possibly food grade. I mean, we use food grade in our line of fertilizers. You know, there are other companies that use ag chemicals because it’s cheaper. And then people call them salts. I mean, all it means is that it dissolved, those minerals can dissolve in water, and that it’s not necessarily sodium chloride. But you know, going back to how microbiology works, and how well will it do with these different fertilizers? Well, I would say it just depends. But when I was working on HumTea, I developed it so that all the functional groups that do the magic,  let’s say, are offset by our fertilizer lines. So because I built it so that it could be used in recirculating systems.

 

Chip: And we have used it in recirculating systems with your you know, 3 Part Cutting Edge for sure. It works great. I gave up the organic components and [inaudible 47:25] during a while ago just because I don’t want to deal biofilm, or clogged comps, or some of the other problems  that happened with it. But it worked great. I just prefer to keep the synthetic stuff and recirculating systems separate. You know, if you’ve got a tank that’s not recirculating, then no reason not to mix synthetic and biological stuff together. Right, I know, I know. I’m [inaudible 47:53] now that I said that. Oh dude, I’m gonna have a flurry of people like, “You can’t kill all the biology dies when they come across [inaudible 47:59],” what did you say that [inaudible 48:00] was? You didn’t listen to that?

 

John: Yeah, it doesn’t. I mean, if –

 

Chip: It doesn’t, and we can see. And here’s another big myth that happens is people talk about, “Oh, in California, the ground’s dead, because of all of the chemicals that they’ve put on it. You can’t grow anything there anymore.” Do you know any place in California that’s like that?

 

John: Well, you know. Yeah. Maybe not in the Hills but you know, you look in the Central Valley. And yeah, there are a build up, there’s a buildup of boron from the groundwater. And the boron, you know, it gets to certain parts per million, and there’s fewer crops you can grow until you’re finally left with pistachios. So –

 

Chip: Oh so they just moved pistachios to those areas?

 

John: Right.

 

Chip: Oh, that’s why. Okay, okay.

 

John: It’s like a succession of planting. And then ultimately, the pistachios come out and then they grow cotton. And then when you –

 

Chip: Uhuh, that’s Oklahoma. 

 

John: Certain people say, “Well, what caused the Dust Bowl in Oklahoma? Wasn’t that the killing of all the microbiology?”

 

Chip: No, it was all the people leaving at once.

 

John: They were trying to get on the freeway first. It’s really dirt roads back then. 

 

Chip: Oh man. I miss the railroad on the freeway. There’s a song there, right, right? Hotel California or something. 

 

John: Right. But you know, the dead lands of California, it’s more like, they’re not dead. They just don’t have, they don’t have the water quality to grow crops. And what is growing burns down. 

 

Chip: Yeah, I mean water quality is a big issue here in Oklahoma and throughout the country. That’s for sure. I mean, the water quality here is pretty poor. We almost all use RO filters. If you’re an indoor you should be using an RO filter here. 

 

John: Yeah and you know, I go to a lot of places here and there, you have boron problems. That’s why those farms were abandoned. So that and the fact that everybody tried to grow one type of wheat, not weed. Fortunately, that’s not happening, because we’re growing many varieties of weed. But wheat, I mean, that’s what pretty much caused the Dust Bowl. It was, there was one popular wheat that everyone wanted to make bread out of in the northeast. And so everybody ran out here, tore up the land, grew one kind of wheat, because it was profitable, and then it became not profitable. And then all those farms were abandoned. And that’s part of the reason of the Dust Bowl. All these people left. They weren’t farmers to begin with anyway.

 

Chip: Yeah, series of droughts. Everybody was planting at once over and over again.

 

John: Same thing.

 

Chip: You know, World War One, it had a huge demand of food for, you know, for that effort. Everybody kind of like, had several great, great years and just everybody pumped it up.

 

John: Right. And my –

 

Chip: Kind of like the hemp industry. In the current hemp industry, there’s a Dust Bowl reference in there someplace.

 

Chip: Yeah, I mean hemp growing, you know, that’s farming once again. I sell a HumTea to hemp growers. You know, they use very little of it, but they use it at transplant because it helps with adjusting to the field from the greenhouse. I mean the hemp industry, there’s another over regulated industry. Keeping people at point three has punished a lot of plant breeders who –

 

Chip: How will that manage? You know what I hate about it? This is the biggest problem, is it still differentiates cannabis growers. There’s either the no THC or the THC growers. And the non-THC growers – mostly, don’t get your feelings hurt if you’re one of these people – mostly you’re like, “Oh no, I don’t grow THC.” It’s like come on, man. This is just the cannabis plant. Let’s stop being so scared of some letters, right? THC, CBD, DEA, FDA. Let’s stop being scared of those. Let’s think about like the cannabis. Let’s think about the plant. Let’s think about the world. And think about it that way, instead of this just fucked up liability type, human health and safety issue that they try to raise with it. We know cannabis is harmless. We’ve been using it for a long, long time. 

 

John: Very true. 

 

Chip: Yeah. Alright. So John, we’ve gone over a handful of things here with compost tea. Who can most benefit from this? Is this just for small people? Is this just for big people? Can anyone benefit from this? What are the best scenarios for compost to use?

 

John: The plants benefit from it.

 

Chip: Anybody, any plant can benefit from it.

 

John: People are problematic.

 

Chip: People benefit from it only because their plants are better and it makes the people happier?

 

John: Yes. 

 

Chip: Oh, I get it. I get it. I get it. I get it.

 

John: A regulator told me a long time ago. “Don’t try to list too many things on the label. Just say it makes plants happy.”

 

Chip: Yeah, yeah. Happy plants. 

 

John: And this was California. And I took that to heart because if you read our Constitution, we have the right to the pursuit of happiness. 

 

Chip: Absolutely. 

 

John: So why shouldn’t plants? 

 

Chip: Absolutely. Well, I love compost tea man. I’m glad we kind of got to talk about all of this. I got a couple compost tea recipes I love. I love 5 gallon compost tea, right? And the way that I like to make it, I don’t know if this is right or not, but when I make it this way, my plants absolutely respond. I usually dilute like, 5 gallons into about 20 gallons when I do it this way, right? And that’s out of sheer necessity. But I like 1 gallon of earthworm castings, 3 gallons of water. I’m gonna then put in a half a cup of some type of trace minerals. And then this is where it gets a little sticky, but I really like some sort of fish product. The fish [inaudible 54:33] or the fish emulsion, there’s controversy over all of that. And then just a smidgen of some sort of sugar. That recipe has been great for me and many other people for years. It’s so easy to follow. It’s not hard at all. You bubble it at you know, it needs to be over 60 degrees. I usually almost always bubble it outside. It usually takes three or four days for the fish smell to exchange from putrid to sweet. And, that’s what I like about this thing. When’s it ready? As soon as it turns sweet. I generally like the soil drench as opposed to the foliar spray. And part of that is because I’m scared of the yeast and fungus tests. 

 

John: Oh, interesting. 

 

Chip: Yeah, I don’t know if that’s real or not. But I’m scared of it. And I know you can outgrow it, you know, but many people spray throughout their flower period and I just choose to only like, spray it once or twice when they’re clones. I feed the clones stray compost tea and then dilute it, you know, like 5:1 or 4:1 or something like that. That’s my favorite compost tea. 

 

John: Yeah, I mean that sounds like a successful formula right there. Simple, easy to use –

 

Chip: Oh kelp. I forgot the kelp. There was my trace minerals, I say trace minerals, but I do prefer kelp for my trace mineral. 

 

John: Ah see, I was gonna add that.

 

Chip: Oh right, right. Yeah, and you know ’cause trace minerals, mined trace minerals are now harder to find, John. Have you looked for this lately, or it might not be hard for you because you’re in California, but they’re hard to get.

 

John: Yeah, you have to buy them in volume. You know, they come from mines in New Mexico and volcanic areas. But, you know, no one wants to go out there and truck them in anymore, that’s one of the problems. Cost, fuel, cost of operation –

 

Chip: There’s something they sell for 19 cents.

 

John: Right, right. So you know, I keep stocked up on all those. When I get halfway down in a container, I’ll reorder, because I like to use trace minerals for a couple different locations in my, in HumTea. And of course, there’s also kelp in there. Simple things that make a great tea. And sort of feed the microbes that you want to step up and be able to further break down what they need for the plant. 

 

Chip: So if you’re interested in compost tea, definitely check out more information we’ll have on The Real Dirt. Check us out at Cultivate Colorado, Cultivate OKC. You can buy all of your compost tea equipment. If you’re not familiar with Cutting Edge products, how do people look you up, John? 

 

John: Cuttingedgesolutions.com.

 

Chip: Cuttingedgesolutions.com. Ask your local vendor. If you’re a commercial grower, you absolutely need to check out the quality of the product. We didn’t even go into the whole lines of this whole compost tea conversation I wanted you here for today. Because I believe in compost tea and it’s something we’ve been talking about forever. And you know, really something that I want to turn people on to. So thanks for coming today, John. I really appreciate this little chat and I look forward to having you on in the future. 

 

John: Sounds good. You know all I have to do is drive down from Tulsa now. 

 

Chip: Oh, yeah, that’s right. We’ll get on that whole relocation on the next episode. Hey guys, thanks for joining me today on The Real Dirt with Chip Baker and John Piccirilli. If you liked this episode, and you have not subscribed yet, please subscribe on iTunes. Join us on Instagram, join us on Facebook. Hey and always comment, always leave a message. And if you’re interested in soil, or any type of growing equipment go to cultivatecolorado.com. Stop in one of our stores in Denver or Oklahoma. Yeah, man, we’re always willing to chat and we’ve got great, great, great people who are willing to answer any question you have. So there it is, The Real Dirt on compost tea. Thanks again.